Mis-firing???

[petrosc]

ECM/U

OK OK

The ECM/U arrived yesterday, I had some instruction for fitting it and that?s exactly what I? ve done.

I started the bike up (hot wire) and for the first 5 minutes, I thought that was it.

WRONG As soon as the bike warmed up, the vibration started, the smoke started, the 1100rpm idle struggled to maintain rhythm etc etc etc.:violin:I let it really warm up, stopped it, re started it, same crap then I started crying with frustration. My wife thought I was going mad and worried I might end up with stroke/heart attack. Had to relax, got in the swimming pool, the temperature at 38 degrees felt like it was singeing my bold head, everything felt so much worst.

I really thought that the ECU/M was going to solve all problems but the starting of the engine.

So, the smoke is evident, the idle speed needs to be 1500rpm before it is maintained,

Running the bike on the road it feels like mis-firing. Lets don?t forget that everything seems to be ok for the fist 5/6 minutes of starting the bike.

Where to now?

Should anyone have any ideas knowing whats happening over here with my bike, please do not hesitate to suggest.

Regards
:bang:

 

[silverfox.xx]

Sound like it all goes pete tong once its warmed up? yes?

So on cold start it's ok...

Sound like its not coming off cold start... wax unit faulty. Ring Taffy.

Engines flooding, I bet if you check the plugs they are as wet a fook.

 

[petrosc]

Aha

Sound like it all goes pete tong once its warmed up? yes?

So on cold start it's ok...

Sound like its not coming off cold start... wax unit faulty. Ring Taffy.

Engines flooding, I bet if you check the plugs they are as wet a fook.

Wax Unit?????????Out of my shoe kit? I have one there, use it every so often.

Do you mean like "it is running with the choke on" ld money?

Are you having me on matey? What/where the hell is that? What does it do? Why should it go wrong? How does it go wrong? Anything to do with the fact that the bike had not run for 7 months?

If thats it, where do I get one? I will talk to Tuffy.

:bang:

 

[Tinytim]

Wax Unit?????????Out of my shoe kit? I have one there, use it every so often.

Do you mean like "it is running with the choke on" ld money?

Are you having me on matey? What/where the hell is that? What does it do? Why should it go wrong? How does it go wrong? Anything to do with the fact that the bike had not run for 7 months?

If thats it, where do I get one? I will talk to Tuffy.

:bang:

Think Slitherfix aint having you on.

Thinking along fuel problem this arvo, although fook knows what a Wax Unit is ( I don't even clean my shoes)

Also, what do you mean by hotwiring it and why? ( excuse if you've already explained)

Ah for the days of manwal advance/retard....not! :-0)

Keep plugging, you'll get there.

When ya do I'll admit to you that there have been times when I've pissed messen at some of your posts...not laffing at you but hopefully with you.
I'd have prolly taken a fookin sledgehammer to it by now.

respect :yo:

 

[silverfox.xx]

Yes Choke... would that give you your running symptoms as per previous post.

The wax unit increases revs only by opening the 4 air bypass screws together, each is adjustable to balance the throttles apart from cyl 3 which is the referance cylinder, this is the only balance adjustment available to balance the throttles. It is adjustable for cold starts but its not an easy job.

Check the shaft is retracting smoothly, I believe you can test these off bike.

The wax unit on injection bikes control the fast idle at cold. Raise tank and look to the back of the injectors, you can see it operate.

As said if this unit is malfunctioning or the actuating rod is stuck you'll be running on 'choke' hence rich/flooding.

If you do a search on BIRD (Wax unit) you'll find info on how to test it.

Here Post #14
Help....1999 BB Will Not Idle When Hot

 

[petrosc]

Wax Unit

Arghhhhhhh

I think I found the bugger. To do with fuel/air supply No.16 (E-10-1)

http://fiche.worldofpowersports.com/speedsupplies/Honda_OEM/HondaMC.asp?Type=13&SID=&A=351&B=22

If this is it, how the hell has it gone wrong?

Hey Tim

I have 2 sledge hammers and compressed air stand up heavy duty chisel and if I start on it there will be nothing left LOL

I wanted to do some european travel....spain this year but there is no way now. I have AA europe cover but its not worth it.

England in 2012 and the OG but will see. I used to shoot for England and GB and wanted to go and watch them as well as bike there and back.
Will see

Now lets this fixed now

:xm

 

[Tinytim]

Yes Choke... would that give you your running symptoms as per previous post.

The wax unit increases revs only by opening the 4 air bypass screws together, each is adjustable to balance the throttles apart from cyl 3 which is the referance cylinder, this is the only balance adjustment available to balance the throttles. It is adjustable for cold starts but its not an easy job.

Check the shaft is retracting smoothly, I believe you can test these off bike.

The wax unit on injection bikes control the fast idle at cold. Raise tank and look to the back of the injectors, you can see it operate.

As said if this unit is malfunctioning or the actuating rod is stuck you'll be running on 'choke' hence rich/flooding.

If you do a search on BIRD (Wax unit) you'll find info on how to test it.

Here Post #14
Help....1999 BB Will Not Idle When Hot

Nice find SF. @tu*

Good old Bezzer eh :bow:

Have you checked the fast idle wax unit?. Might be playing up and sticking as it hasn't been used for a while, over choking the engine when it warms up.
Forget the ECU unless it is flashing a code at you, it covers a lot of the sensors and if you're not getting the flashing FI light they are probably OK, the wax unit isn't covered by the fault codes.

This coont may not be too far off the mark after all heh heh !

Probably bunged up with Kebab Fat!

 

[petrosc]

Ha, I will be checking that 2moro lads
Is it repairable? or Am I looking for a new one?
Great lads and thanks

Help....1999 BB Will Not Idle When Hot


OK I ve just read it and it looks very interesting. It sounds like the same thing

 

[silverfox.xx]

Ha, I will be checking that 2moro lads
Is it repairable? or Am I looking for a new one?
Great lads and thanks

Yes your find is it.

If its sticking (the bar/pin that protrudes out of it), it can be cleaned/repaired, which sounds quite likely to be the cause.

Still doesn't solve the starting problem... which I think may be the alarm.

good luck.

 

[petrosc]

Yes Choke... would that give you your running symptoms as per previous post.

The wax unit increases revs only by opening the 4 air bypass screws together, each is adjustable to balance the throttles apart from cyl 3 which is the referance cylinder, this is the only balance adjustment available to balance the throttles. It is adjustable for cold starts but its not an easy job.

Check the shaft is retracting smoothly, I believe you can test these off bike.

The wax unit on injection bikes control the fast idle at cold. Raise tank and look to the back of the injectors, you can see it operate.

As said if this unit is malfunctioning or the actuating rod is stuck you'll be running on 'choke' hence rich/flooding.

If you do a search on BIRD (Wax unit) you'll find info on how to test it.

Here Post #14
Help....1999 BB Will Not Idle When Hot

How the hell do you know these things mate? Are you BB mechanic?

lol:bow:

 

[silverfox.xx]

How the hell do you know these things mate? Are you BB mechanic?

lol:bow:

Apart from the fact I service my own bike, well for the last 5/6 years, I've spent considerable time on BIRD reading other peoples problems..

Hope it all works for you. @tu*

 

[petrosc]

Apart from the fact I service my own bike, well for the last 5/6 years, I've spent considerable time on BIRD reading other peoples problems..

Hope it all works for you. @tu*

I know what you are saying mate
I do some servicing myself...plugs, filters, oil, brake pads and the like but you seem to know everything@tu*

 

[petrosc]

Yes your find is it.

If its sticking (the bar/pin that protrudes out of it), it can be cleaned/repaired, which sounds quite likely to be the cause.

Still doesn't solve the starting problem... which I think may be the alarm.

good luck.

If it is the alam/immobiliser though, how come I can hot wire it?
The engine starts and runs

?

 

[silverfox.xx]

If it is the alam/immobiliser though, how come I can hot wire it?
The engine starts and runs

?

How are you hot wiring?
Ignition on? must be or else HISS will prevent fuel pump running/start circuit

 

[silverfox.xx]

I know what you are saying mate
I do some servicing myself...plugs, filters, oil, brake pads and the like but you seem to know everything@tu*

After 14,000 posts I guess something will sink in... :-0)

 

[petrosc]

How are you hot wiring?
Ignition on? must be or else HISS will prevent fuel pump running/start circuit

Yes, alarm off, ignition on, pump works and hot wire, then bike runs as norm.

If you call it that

2 things,either starter button or alarm?

Which one would you have a go at first?

 

[Tinytim]

Yes, alarm off, ignition on, pump works and hot wire, then bike runs as norm.

If you call it that

2 things,either starter button or alarm?

Which one would you have a go at first?

Starter button for me first.

I've had the starter button go...just 2 copper blade type contacts and one had worn/bent back. You can't just get the button off the mounting at the side of the twistgrip ( can't think of the words it's fekkin late) You have to undo the RHS switchgear take it off the handlebar and clean the contacts up/bend the copper blades back to get a better contact. Easy enough job, before tackling the ..........................alarm




:-0)

 

[GeoffXX]

hi mate sorry for the late posts, I'm actually having similar issues but not the same reasons but I gone through extensive diagnostics trying to get my BB running correctly (not easy when you live in a country with no dealers and they don't sell birds)

The first thing I would do is get your bike to standard spec by removing all aftermarket addons

Am I correct in saying your bike runs fine once warmed up and with a few miles on it, if so then the FPR is the prime suspect - it allows fuel to leak into the cylinders once you switch off also fuel pressure may be off.

next you need to clean the fuel filter then measure fuel pressure, it should be more than 45psi, attach a FP gauge to the fuel rail either end of the main fuel pipe feed from the tank, the tank end has an attachment



I very much doubt your starter will effect the running of the engine once your bike is started

the loom fix rectifies a particular set of issues that are very specific, the FI light glows and engine cuts out completely, don't think this is your issue

once you have established correct fuel pressure and the fpr and filter are ok then you are into ignition/electrical, as you have replaced the coils then the only thing left is either swap out the ecu or test the coil outputs from the ecu

fuel injection is very simple in operation

I have discovered I have leaking exhaust valves which cause low compression, my bike starts on 2-3 cylinders and won't idle, I know what caused this but very doubtful you have a problem like this.


the wax unit only adds air for cold starting and will not give the symtoms you have, another thing worth looking at is the ect sensor, it is critical for proper fuel/air mixture once the engine is warmed up, if it is faulty or reading incorrectly i.e. making the ecu think the engine is cold when it's hot you will be overfueling and running like a pig when hot - like keeping the choke on on a carbed engine

i have not read through this whole thread so excuse if stuff i'm suggesting has been done already

once you're done with all this it's time for a compression test when hot


good info on the ect and how critical it is for proper engine running and fueling http://www.diycardoctor.com/the_ect_sensor_temperature.htm

 

[PJbiker]

I've been following and learning from this thread with sympathy :violin:and intrigue for a couple of weeks. Just got out my new Haynes manual and looked up the fuel stuff, re wax unit and the ECT (or coolant temperature sensor). If it's the ECT, Mr Haynes says you should get a fault code 7 and I don't think you're getting that? It should have 2.2-2.7 K ohms resistance @ 20deg C (if you can find anwhere that cool in Greece8ree!). The wax unit is definitely worth checking IMO. quote "4, The wax unit expands with heat. If you suspect it is not working correctly, place it first in a cold place and check that it is fully retracted. Now gently heat it using a hairdryer or equivalent and check that it expands. 5, check that the pushrod moves smoothly in and out of the body. 6, check the spring for fatigue and distortion"
book suggests you replace the o-rings as a matter of course (doesn't it always:bang
So, theres some stuff to try that won't cost and arm and a leg anyway. Not sure about the starting issue, though looking at the switch and associated wiring sounds reasonable.
Really hope you get is sorted soon, I'll be watching.

edit This bit sounds promising, if yours is gunged up then you've probably found the problem

So, I then took apart the Wax Unit and found it was totally grunged up with a thick greasy blackish-gray "goodge". Hmmm...this is part of the cooling system and the funk should not have been there. Regardless, the rest of the antifreeze looked good and in fact was freshly installed.

I thoroughly cleaned the internals of the wax unit until it was spotless. Also, I took out the small steel rod in the unit and used a pipe cleaner to carefully clean out the channel it rides in. Also, the spring had this thick crust on it and I cleaned it up, too. All was carefully reassembled and the bike buttoned up for another test ride.


I think this might have finally solved the problem.
Bob in Arkansas

 

[petrosc]

AT LAST

@tu*

I Think this is it with the mis-firing, blue smoke, not holding idle, thirsty bla bla BB. I located the wax thingy, I started the bike up and watched it. It didn't move a thou of an inch, the bike got up to temp the hoses at the back of the wax thingy got hot but the little shaft at the front was not moving at all.

Then I gently pushed it and the thing starting to move by itself. Hurray.
The bike run like a dream for over a half hour.

More to the point I adjusted the idle back to 1100rpm and it was still running like a dream.

Ok, ok, I have not taken the bike out for a run yet because it is still in bits and I need to sort out the starting switch problem out anyway.

NOW THEN I was looking at my repair manual about the wax thingy and it sais that if you take it apart you need to replace all the O rings (3/4).
Is this right? I need to take it apart, clean it and put it back together again.
And is there a proper spec for them or any old O ring will do? I think they say this as a matter of course!!!!!!!

My thanks to everyone :bow:

NOW8ree!

Who knows anything about STARTER SWITCH?
Had a look today (quick one) but no evidence of coming apart just like that. It is in a funny position with all the rest of the switch gear.
Is there an easy way?

%$fan

Carry on like this I could be on the road soon @tu*