Mis-firing???

[andyBeaker]

Excellent news!!@tu*

 

[silverfox.xx]

Yes, alarm off, ignition on, pump works and hot wire, then bike runs as norm.

If you call it that

2 things,either starter button or alarm?

Which one would you have a go at first?

As Tim @tu* says starter button, then clutch and side stand switch.
Then Alarm.

Am I correct in saying your bike runs fine once warmed up and with a few miles on it, if so then the FPR is the prime suspect - it allows fuel to leak into the cylinders once you switch off also fuel pressure may be off.

No its get worse when his is warm, ok cold.

I Think this is it with the mis-firing, blue smoke, not holding idle, thirsty bla bla BB. I located the wax thingy, I started the bike up and watched it. It didn't move a thou of an inch, the bike got up to temp the hoses at the back of the wax thingy got hot but the little shaft at the front was not moving at all.

Then I gently pushed it and the thing starting to move by itself. Hurray.
The bike run like a dream for over a half hour.

More to the point I adjusted the idle back to 1100rpm and it was still running like a dream.

Ok, ok, I have not taken the bike out for a run yet because it is still in bits and I need to sort out the starting switch problem out anyway.

NOW THEN I was looking at my repair manual about the wax thingy and it sais that if you take it apart you need to replace all the O rings (3/4).
Is this right? I need to take it apart, clean it and put it back together again.
And is there a proper spec for them or any old O ring will do? I think they say this as a matter of course!!!!!!!

My thanks to everyone :bow:

NOW8ree!

Who knows anything about STARTER SWITCH?
Had a look today (quick one) but no evidence of coming apart just like that. It is in a funny position with all the rest of the switch gear.
Is there an easy way?

Carry on like this I could be on the road soon @tu*

As soon as you said it ran ok until warm... I knew it'd be the wax unit... Note: Wax unit being non electric is not monitored by the ECM.

I would take the wax unit off the bike and clean it/free shaft, or at least spray a little 'freeing' agent (ACF50) around the shaft.

I think you'll be safe to take the wax unit apart and not replace the 'O' rings, its std haynes/manual to replace any seals/gaskets.. I'd risk it and I'm sure it'll be just fine after assembly.

@tu* Glad you're on the road to recovery. @tu*

Just take the switch unit off the bars and strip/clean... if the wax unit was gummy, chances are a switch contact is.

Use contact cleaner and then spray with ACF50 if you have some.

 

[GeoffXX]

wax unit

the wax unit operates the same mechanism as the idle adjuster, if it's not working correctly all that will happen is the idle speed will not reduce as the bike warms up, it would be the same effect as turning the idle adjuster almost all the way in - effectively anyone should be able produce your symptoms by turning the idle adjuster

the ECT is a thermister - a resistor that varies resistance with heat, the ecu will only throw a fault code if it's open circuit but if it drifts out of tolerance it will be feeding the ecu with incorrect information, also the ect changed in later BB's, different resistance range i believe

 

[PJbiker]

the wax unit operates the same mechanism as the idle adjuster, if it's not working correctly all that will happen is the idle speed will not reduce as the bike warms up, it would be the same effect as turning the idle adjuster almost all the way in - effectively anyone should be able produce your symptoms by turning the idle adjuster

Interesting, can't it adjust fuel without adjusting air? Anyway, I'll keep watching and see if Petrosc's symptoms resolve completely. I have a carb bird so shouldn't have these problems thankfully.

 

[petrosc]

Thanks

Thanks very much mate....all your advice/knowledge.....excellent.....I need to study a little bit myself now....and start doing a bit more on the BB now because its getting older and good maintenance will keep it going longer.

My BB has done 10698 miles but nothing much the past 5 years because we moved over to Greece and we were building 2 houses. Now is the time to start using it again.

Ok OK, to the task of taking the wax unit out, clean/lubricate and the switch unit.

ACF50, is it the same as WD40?

 

[PJbiker]

Well it looks like you'll be able to send the ECU back to Taffy then? You just need to find where the immobilser is spliced into the starting circuit (or fix your starter button) and you're away, I hope. ACF50 is some amazing stuff that's better than WD40 apparently. Jaws sells it on his website. Its "about 9 guineas an ounce" as my dad would say :-0). WD40 will probably do if thats what you got.

 

[silverfox.xx]

ACF50, is it the same as WD40?

Don't let Jaws hear you say that.. 8rfl@
ACF 50 if a good quality anti corrosion fliud.
http://www.acf-50.co.uk/acf50.htm

WD40 is said to be hygroscopic... attract moisture from the atmosphere... once it has dried out. Works short term as a water dispersant.

Or smear with switch grease... myself I use ACF50.

Keep us informed on how its going. @tu*

 

[Tinytim]

Well. in a perverse kinda way I'll be sorry to see Petrosc get his Bird running sweet again as it'll mean an end to the only interesting thread on here.

Best get the keys ready for locking up Lumpy.

Been good reading. @tu*

Oh yea, Petrosc, no good just spraying the contact area with WD50/Kebab Fat. Physically clean the copper blades/contacts..I used a couple of cotton buds moistened with cleaning fluid. I also bent the contact blades out gently as they had got some stick off me as the switch had slowly deteriorated and I had had to press harder and harder to "make" it work. All with a light hand though.

 

[GeoffXX]

ok in more detail

ok i'll explain in more detail

from cold the injected BB needs more fuel as in like a choke in an older carb system

the only way the ecu knows the engine is cold is through the ECT, the only way the ecu knows the engine has warmed up is through the ECT, based on the readings from the ect the ecu will adjust the injector cycle accordingly i.e. when cold the injectors will stay open longer enriching the mixture, as the engine warms the ect readings will change telling the ecu to adjust the mixture accordingly - if the ect is out of tolerence then the ecu will not be fueling the engine correctly, it is either going to be telling the ecu the engine is hot when in fact it is cold or the opposite - either way the ect is a very primary component for the fuel injection to function correctly and is very temperature related....................the wax unit only changes the idle speed it has no effect whatsoever on fueling, it operates the same aux air valves that the idle speed adjuster operates and will only make a difference at idle

what I have written above is 100% correct

and just to finish, the most important sensor for correct hot and cold running on the fuel injected engine is the ECT - ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURE sensor, it dictates how the ecu feeds fuel to the engine and can have a dramatic effect if it is out of range, depending on which way it is out of range will either make the engine hard to start (no choke) or make the mixture very rich (constant choke when hot) or somewhere inbetween, I don't know how many of you guys had manual chokes on cars or bikes but if you left it on too long the engine would start to run like shit when it warmed up


as for the OP, I'd be completely dumb founded if the wax unit fixed you problem - I can see absolutly no explanation for this. in saying that I hope somehow your problem is gone

 

[petrosc]

AEROSPACE??????????

Don't let Jaws hear you say that.. 8rfl@
ACF 50 if a good quality anti corrosion fliud.
http://www.acf-50.co.uk/acf50.htm

WD40 is said to be hygroscopic... attract moisture from the atmosphere... once it has dried out. Works short term as a water dispersant.

Or smear with switch grease... myself I use ACF50.

Keep us informed on how its going. @tu*

Ok, well, it was a question looooooolllllll, so Jaws believes that we should be using this stuff because "ACF-50 is designed with the professional aerospace technician in mind."
Ok Ok Ok :-0)

Now then,The wax unit was taken out and it was discovered the gunge had taken over. The piston was taken out, all the bits and pieces were cleaned, the O rings inspected cleaned re-fitted. Then the whole was re fitted, the bike was hot wired and it run as smooth as anything. ITS FIXED AND I AM SO EXCITED p0pc0rn41

THE BIRD IS RUNNNG SWEET AGAIN

I would like to thank everybody that has taken the time to post an opinion/solution/xperience and the like.

Special thanks to SILVERFOXX who has helped me so much
Silverfoxx has also inspired me to learn as much as I can about the BB so I can maintain it properly. My wife loves the BBs and we are planning to go around Greece and the Greek Islands on it.

Thanks guys and I will be posting on here a blogspot for everybody to see where we are and what we are doing.

 

[petrosc]

Starter switch

Well. in a perverse kinda way I'll be sorry to see Petrosc get his Bird running sweet again as it'll mean an end to the only interesting thread on here.

Best get the keys ready for locking up Lumpy.

Been good reading. @tu*

Oh yea, Petrosc, no good just spraying the contact area with WD50/Kebab Fat. Physically clean the copper blades/contacts..I used a couple of cotton buds moistened with cleaning fluid. I also bent the contact blades out gently as they had got some stick off me as the switch had slowly deteriorated and I had had to press harder and harder to "make" it work. All with a light hand though.

Hey Tiny

I just did that, taken it apart, cleaned both sides of the contacts(diamond needle filed it) little contact grease, put it together (all light handed) and presto......

PRESSED THE BUTTON AND FIRED UP

You cannot imagine how fantastic it all felt

Turned it of,fired up, turned it off, fired up works as it should

FANTASTIC

Next two days, clean everything up, plastics on and some SERIOUS MILES

Thanks lads for all your support @tu*

 

[Quiney]

Ok, well, it was a question looooooolllllll, so Jaws believes that we should be using this stuff because "ACF-50 is designed with the professional aerospace technician in mind."
Ok Ok Ok :-0)

Now then,The wax unit was taken out and it was discovered the gunge had taken over. The piston was taken out, all the bits and pieces were cleaned, the O rings inspected cleaned re-fitted. Then the whole was re fitted, the bike was hot wired and it run as smooth as anything. ITS FIXED AND I AM SO EXCITED p0pc0rn41

THE BIRD IS RUNNNG SWEET AGAIN

I would like to thank everybody that has taken the time to post an opinion/solution/xperience and the like.

Special thanks to SILVERFOXX who has helped me so much
Silverfoxx has also inspired me to learn as much as I can about the BB so I can maintain it properly. My wife loves the BBs and we are planning to go around Greece and the Greek Islands on it.

Thanks guys and I will be posting on here a blogspot for everybody to see where we are and what we are doing.

Great news about the bike Pete, have yourself a drink @tu*

So when are you visiting Corfu? We will be there ALL next summer, May through till October. The drinks are on me :beer:

 

[silverfox.xx]

Fantastic news. :bowtu*

So Faults were Kebab Unit and Starter Button...


Can you find any other faults as we'll all get bored now. h1d1ng2

 

[Tinytim]

Fantastic news. :bowtu*

So Faults were Kebab Unit and Starter Button...


Can you find any other faults as we'll all get bored now. h1d1ng2

Moving on...just acquired a Vista throttle control. Any tips on fitting please before |I go searching?

Ta.

 

[Quiney]

Moving on...just acquired a Vista throttle control. Any tips on fitting please before |I go searching?

Ta.

Here you go Tim, ya lazy bugger d34l

http://www.bikersoracle.com/jaws/faq.htm

 

[petrosc]

Great news about the bike Pete, have yourself a drink @tu*

So when are you visiting Corfu? We will be there ALL next summer, May through till October. The drinks are on me :beer:

Yes it is great news matey.

"We will be there ALL next summer, May through till October." Whats going on? Are you gonna be living in Kerkyra permanently?

We shall make the effort before we go England

 

[Quiney]

Just for the summers at the moment.
Got a long term rental in Kassiopi.

 

[petrosc]

NOT DONE YET

Fantastic news. :bowtu*

So Faults were Kebab Unit and Starter Button...


Can you find any other faults as we'll all get bored now. h1d1ng2

I still have to take this bike out on a run, it has to behave, it needs to run super smoothly and it needs to start every time.
The question is: SHOULD I RUN IT WITH 108 OCTANE FUEL?
Its a made up fuel by a mate down the road and he sais that this fuel will clear everything up. Dont know. I would like to use normal fuel.

Whats your opinion?..............

 

[silverfox.xx]

I still have to take this bike out on a run, it has to behave, it needs to run super smoothly and it needs to start every time.
The question is: SHOULD I RUN IT WITH 108 OCTANE FUEL?
Its a made up fuel by a mate down the road and he sais that this fuel will clear everything up. Dont know. I would like to use normal fuel.

Whats your opinion?..............

Honda recommend (think its 95 or above), anyway its the cheap unleaded. Be a bit careful on race fuel which is what 108 is, heard somewhere that unless the fueling is set up for it you could do engine damage. - Someone may advise differently. The highest I would use is 98.

With you're mileage... its not dirty.

 

[Tinytim]

Here you go Tim, ya lazy bugger d34l

http://www.bikersoracle.com/jaws/faq.htm

Sorry, and thanks !