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damientt
Guest
We visited the Vatican a couple of weeks ago and I certainly didn't see Him (or Her). So ... it's a load of bo**ocks ...... in all likelihood ....... unless I'm wrong of course.
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Does god exist????
- Thread starter Wolfie
- Start date
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bishbosh
Guest
What would prove it for you?
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Birdy_Blue
Guest
I believe that there is more.
Not quite sure how much more, but as science is always telling us that we work on a relatively low percentage of our brain power.
There is proof that some folks can move things by brain power, well on film there is, can't say a link for that, but seen it. Will hope it wasn't a lie.
The film "secrets of the Jesus tomb" blew me away after being brought up somewhat reluctantly to believe in the ascension after crucifixion.
If Haillie Selassi was a dscendant of JC, then it would seem logical that JC was black and Mary Magdelene was white (Mariamne Mara apparantley). It would then seem logical that the Romans would have crucified JC for marying a white woman, BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK.
Black people were slaves.....simple as that to a Roman.
I do believe that Jesus Christ walked this earth. I also believe he spoke the word of God.
The people who wrote the Bible were almost the only people who could write at the time, so there is bound to be some kind of agenda here. Mainly for preserving the power that they already had over people.
That is where the whole thing has gone wrong ...... POWER.
JC must be up there, watching us down here, with his chin resting in his upturned hand, shaking his head slowly, thinking "OH MY GOD!"
Not quite sure how much more, but as science is always telling us that we work on a relatively low percentage of our brain power.
There is proof that some folks can move things by brain power, well on film there is, can't say a link for that, but seen it. Will hope it wasn't a lie.
The film "secrets of the Jesus tomb" blew me away after being brought up somewhat reluctantly to believe in the ascension after crucifixion.
If Haillie Selassi was a dscendant of JC, then it would seem logical that JC was black and Mary Magdelene was white (Mariamne Mara apparantley). It would then seem logical that the Romans would have crucified JC for marying a white woman, BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK.
Black people were slaves.....simple as that to a Roman.
I do believe that Jesus Christ walked this earth. I also believe he spoke the word of God.
The people who wrote the Bible were almost the only people who could write at the time, so there is bound to be some kind of agenda here. Mainly for preserving the power that they already had over people.
That is where the whole thing has gone wrong ...... POWER.
JC must be up there, watching us down here, with his chin resting in his upturned hand, shaking his head slowly, thinking "OH MY GOD!"
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Stinkyfinger
Guest
It's all a tragic and errant nonsense. It has shaped our history and history is where it belongs.....unfortunately the one thing, Judaic religion especially, seems bent on doing is making history, and a bloody one at that.
The first monoatheistic religion was Zoroastrionism, the whole 3 wise men from the east story was lifted piecemeal from that religion (modern day Parsi) along with commandments etc etc, itself it drew heavily upon the tale of Horus (he was born on the 25th of Dec....star guiding to his birthplace in a barn, 12 apostles...etc).
It affects us still, the disquiet with immigration reflected by groups like the EDL, who openly wish to see us (without irony) as a culturally Christian country and the phrase "multiculturism" which is effectively another way of saying other -religionism.....pretty much the only element of the immigrant populations culture that offends.
The middle East and the Israel/Palestinian conflict would have been no more than a huge homecoming party if it had not been for the whole "my god is better than your god" complication and we wouldn't live in a world where female genital mutilation, or male if you take the Jewish circumcision , is commonplace in some societies, let alone "Juju" sacrafice and killing people as witches in Africa.
We need to lose our need for a fluffy blanket, the world is getting smaller, you can communicate instantly with people the world over, hopefully our lack of differences will put paid to the "beardy guy in the sky" bullshit within a few generations.
There are few territorial conflicts in this world that are helped by religious fervour adding petrol to the fire.
As for 21,000 (upheld!...but almost never legally addressed) complaints of paedophilia in the Catholic church in Ireland alone since 1972, making as close to a systematic child abuse ring as makes no difference.....I despair.
Apologists like to point towards religious charitable organisations, but there is no charity or act of kindness that requires faith as a pre-supposition and in fact in a survey by the Templeton Foundation (a religious think tank in the states) they found a direct correlation between the more religious states not only giving less per head to charity, but also the highest murder rates, highest crime rates and most underage pregnancy....whether that statistic reflects the society within those states, and people being god fearing because of their situation and poverty...who knows.
If someone is being kind to me....I like to think it's because they want to....not because they are being told to and we are all aware of the slightly too large grins of the church member pumping your hand with a slightly distant look in their eyes.
I am a member of The Richard Dawkins Foundation For Reason And Science and my partner goes to The New Life Church......we rarely conflict.....we have learnt not to. She still does slightly weird stuff now and again, insists that her son puts his Yu-Gi-Oh cards on the shelf at night instead of near his bed, because of the "Demonic images" on them, but at least she now allows him to play the game with his friends (she never used to until I convinced her she was being a doughnut...lol)
The first monoatheistic religion was Zoroastrionism, the whole 3 wise men from the east story was lifted piecemeal from that religion (modern day Parsi) along with commandments etc etc, itself it drew heavily upon the tale of Horus (he was born on the 25th of Dec....star guiding to his birthplace in a barn, 12 apostles...etc).
It affects us still, the disquiet with immigration reflected by groups like the EDL, who openly wish to see us (without irony) as a culturally Christian country and the phrase "multiculturism" which is effectively another way of saying other -religionism.....pretty much the only element of the immigrant populations culture that offends.
The middle East and the Israel/Palestinian conflict would have been no more than a huge homecoming party if it had not been for the whole "my god is better than your god" complication and we wouldn't live in a world where female genital mutilation, or male if you take the Jewish circumcision , is commonplace in some societies, let alone "Juju" sacrafice and killing people as witches in Africa.
We need to lose our need for a fluffy blanket, the world is getting smaller, you can communicate instantly with people the world over, hopefully our lack of differences will put paid to the "beardy guy in the sky" bullshit within a few generations.
There are few territorial conflicts in this world that are helped by religious fervour adding petrol to the fire.
As for 21,000 (upheld!...but almost never legally addressed) complaints of paedophilia in the Catholic church in Ireland alone since 1972, making as close to a systematic child abuse ring as makes no difference.....I despair.
Apologists like to point towards religious charitable organisations, but there is no charity or act of kindness that requires faith as a pre-supposition and in fact in a survey by the Templeton Foundation (a religious think tank in the states) they found a direct correlation between the more religious states not only giving less per head to charity, but also the highest murder rates, highest crime rates and most underage pregnancy....whether that statistic reflects the society within those states, and people being god fearing because of their situation and poverty...who knows.
If someone is being kind to me....I like to think it's because they want to....not because they are being told to and we are all aware of the slightly too large grins of the church member pumping your hand with a slightly distant look in their eyes.
I am a member of The Richard Dawkins Foundation For Reason And Science and my partner goes to The New Life Church......we rarely conflict.....we have learnt not to. She still does slightly weird stuff now and again, insists that her son puts his Yu-Gi-Oh cards on the shelf at night instead of near his bed, because of the "Demonic images" on them, but at least she now allows him to play the game with his friends (she never used to until I convinced her she was being a doughnut...lol)
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Stinkyfinger
Guest
I have no problem with anything JC was purported to say, all good.....moral philosophy for beginners really, but when I say "purported" I mean it....the canonical bible has no writings in it that are closer in author than 400 years....a little like me quoting Cromwell.......
The newest "testament" is the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas (about 150 years AD)......left out (and tbh it is strangely written)
The newest "testament" is the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas (about 150 years AD)......left out (and tbh it is strangely written)
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bishbosh
Guest
Sounds utter tosh, he would not have got into the temple, read in synagogues etc if he was a slave. The roman census was for tax purposes, slaves are property and would not have been counted, so for Jesus to have been black then his mother/father or both would have been. It is unlikely that a free person would have married a slave so both would have been slaves and therefore no requirement for Joseph to travel to Bethlehem.
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Stinkyfinger
Guest
Sorry squag.......but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.....not just conjecture of the "I've got a mate who says it's true" variety.
James Randi will simply hand anyone who can move anything with their mind...or show any other supernatural abilities...a million dollars, that nun could open her own mission for the poor with that. But sadly...it's the usual silliness.
James Randi will simply hand anyone who can move anything with their mind...or show any other supernatural abilities...a million dollars, that nun could open her own mission for the poor with that. But sadly...it's the usual silliness.
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bishbosh
Guest
... and your evidence Lumpy.
Well the best I can do is say again that he was at an exorcism and it was frightening. The person being exorcised was being thrown around by some force. The priest in who did the exorcism can relate many such events that he participated in.
I was blessed by a priest recently and experienced physical affects.
I felt intense heat in my body which was totally unexpected.
So that's not a 'he said she said' story.
I have had other experiences also. When I was about 14 I was blessed by a newly ordained priest and felt an extreme emotion and almost cried.
That was also unexpected as I was young and not tuned in to such ideas. Why would somebody making the sign of the cross over you cause such events ???? So is it God or Jesus ??
It would be too easy to say I'm happy with this.
I don't understand it and why it has happened to me.
I have several other stories of friends being cured at a prayer centre.
One in particular who wasn't Christian which brought me to visit the place.
Before you condemn the idea read these stories.
Even if not religious they are astounding.
People might look at this link and read "The Miracle of the Host"
http://www.garabandal.org/story.shtml
The Miracle of the Host
Above the village is a steep hill on which stands a cluster of 9 pine trees. "One day," said the girls, "an angel with a golden chalice appeared to us at "The Pines". He told us to recite the Confiteor and then he gave us Holy Communion." This wonderful favor happened many times during those days when the parish priest of the neighboring town of Cosio could not go to Garabandal. It was possible to film some of these Communions, using very bright light. The movements of the lips and tongues of the girls gave the exact idea of a real Communion. On May 2, 1962, the angel told Conchita that God would perform a miracle so that all people would believe: they would see the Sacred Host on her tongue at the moment of Communion and that she should make this known fifteen days in advance. On July 18, 1962, the town was crowded with visitors. At midnight Conchita, who had remained in her home continually surrounded by visitors, entered into ecstasy and went out into the street. At a short distance from her house she fell down on her knees in the midst of the crowd. Lanterns were focused on her. She put out her tongue upon which nothing was resting, as everyone could see. In a few moments, a white host appeared on her tongue and remained there for a few minutes. A businessman from Barcelona, Don Alejandro Damians, standing less than three feet from the girl, secured some very good moving pictures. In the film there appeared 79 pictures of the extraordinary scene. This same witness wrote a report which he submitted to the Bishop of Santander, together with a copy of the film. The number of witnesses on this occasion was very large: there were people from different cultures and social classes. Don Benjamin Gomez, a farmer from Potes, wrote:
This is about Medjugorje.
http://www.medjugorje.com/medjugorje/signs-and-miracles/540-testimonies-of-physical-healings.html
An apparition in front of a whole village!
http://www.ourladyofsiluva.com/our_lady/
There are many more.
I don't understand it and why it has happened to me.
I have several other stories of friends being cured at a prayer centre.
One in particular who wasn't Christian which brought me to visit the place.
Before you condemn the idea read these stories.
Even if not religious they are astounding.
People might look at this link and read "The Miracle of the Host"
http://www.garabandal.org/story.shtml
The Miracle of the Host
Above the village is a steep hill on which stands a cluster of 9 pine trees. "One day," said the girls, "an angel with a golden chalice appeared to us at "The Pines". He told us to recite the Confiteor and then he gave us Holy Communion." This wonderful favor happened many times during those days when the parish priest of the neighboring town of Cosio could not go to Garabandal. It was possible to film some of these Communions, using very bright light. The movements of the lips and tongues of the girls gave the exact idea of a real Communion. On May 2, 1962, the angel told Conchita that God would perform a miracle so that all people would believe: they would see the Sacred Host on her tongue at the moment of Communion and that she should make this known fifteen days in advance. On July 18, 1962, the town was crowded with visitors. At midnight Conchita, who had remained in her home continually surrounded by visitors, entered into ecstasy and went out into the street. At a short distance from her house she fell down on her knees in the midst of the crowd. Lanterns were focused on her. She put out her tongue upon which nothing was resting, as everyone could see. In a few moments, a white host appeared on her tongue and remained there for a few minutes. A businessman from Barcelona, Don Alejandro Damians, standing less than three feet from the girl, secured some very good moving pictures. In the film there appeared 79 pictures of the extraordinary scene. This same witness wrote a report which he submitted to the Bishop of Santander, together with a copy of the film. The number of witnesses on this occasion was very large: there were people from different cultures and social classes. Don Benjamin Gomez, a farmer from Potes, wrote:
"I was standing at less than an arm's length from the girl. I saw very well that her tongue was completely clean of everything. The girl did not move. Suddenly there appeared on it the Sacred Host. It was white, shining and resplendent. It reminded one of the snow when the sun strikes it with its brilliant rays. The girl's face was beautifully transformed into heavenly ecstasy. Her face was angelic I can certify that she was there motionless, moving neither hands nor tongue. In this motionless position she received the Sacred Host. We had enough time to contemplate this marvelous phenomenon without any undue haste, and we were many who saw it. I was an unbeliever until that day. I am not such a Catholic as to be subject to any hallucination or imagination. I had not concerned myself about God until then except to offend Him. I went to confession in April but previous to that time I had not gone to confession for twenty-three years."
This is about Medjugorje.
http://www.medjugorje.com/medjugorje/signs-and-miracles/540-testimonies-of-physical-healings.html
An apparition in front of a whole village!
http://www.ourladyofsiluva.com/our_lady/
There are many more.
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bishbosh
Guest
Thank you. Faith is foolish to those who don't have it. Thing is miracles happen every day around the world, ie the blind see, the lame walk etc. For those that are part of or witness these things reporting them to the local media is noot important. We hear about things every now and then through church, sometimes from eyewitnesses, it's great but then we move on.
I presume God has an agenda, but it's not to prove himself to us.
I have had two dreams that were premonitions, nothing to do with faith, but just goes to show that what you think is real, isn't necessarily the whole truth. If then you accept stories such as exorcisms, ghosts, teleconisis etc you accept there is something beyond what we see and touch.
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Stinkyfinger
Guest
You might want to youtube Derren Brown's Messiah squag....he had random people fainting away with "the spirit of lord" after putting an ad for agnostics and those that doubt their faith (cleverly worded) in the New York Times. happens in all "religions"
Need comfort?....Argos does a mean hot water bottle and hot chocolate always works for me.
If you can get people to believe the unbelievable then you can get them to perform the unsupportable.
Rationality flies people to the moon, irrationality flies people into buildings.
Need comfort?....Argos does a mean hot water bottle and hot chocolate always works for me.
If you can get people to believe the unbelievable then you can get them to perform the unsupportable.
Rationality flies people to the moon, irrationality flies people into buildings.
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Stinkyfinger
Guest
It's part of the human condition, if you see a white glowing figure of a woman in a deserted old house......just think how many things you have to actually discount before you get to the undead walking in ephereal form....lol...but most people do.
Problem with having these big imaginative frontal lobes dontcha know.
Problem with having these big imaginative frontal lobes dontcha know.
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Stinkyfinger
Guest
There are thousands more like that squag...all anecdotal, and ultimately conjecture...most, if not all, from those who wish it was so.
J
jontheone
Guest
"follow the shoe"
"follow the orb"
"he is not the messiah, he is a very naughty boy."
there is no god, but there was a great film made around his "son".
"follow the orb"
"he is not the messiah, he is a very naughty boy."
there is no god, but there was a great film made around his "son".
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Stinkyfinger
Guest
The art of science and rationality is the following view when faced with the inexplicable: "We don't know how/why that happens, but we are interested in finding out, please show us it happening that we may all gain knowledge"
The Art of the Charlatan is "I can't show you it happening without there being certain rules"
The Art of the religious is "I know why it happens because the guy above told me so...and I read it in this book he gave me".
The Art of the Charlatan is "I can't show you it happening without there being certain rules"
The Art of the religious is "I know why it happens because the guy above told me so...and I read it in this book he gave me".
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Birdy_Blue
Guest
To me that is bull shit.
This is what you read in the Bible. Don't get me wrong I don't want to downput the Bible, but am sure wary of it for the reasons I gave.
The only people who could write were the one's in power or close to it.
Am very suspicious of any of the accounts, turning water into wine, the modern day equivalent would be to turn lead into gold.
No the point is that Jesus was here, he walked among us as a man. I can't help feeling that if he were to see some muslims praying, he would turn to you and say "fancy a pint down the pub? "man they do take it seriously, am sure dad wouldn't want our followers to touch the ground with their foreheads!"
We are of free will, in a shit state and getting worse by the day.
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bishbosh
Guest
Birdy
I was answering the statement that Jesus was black and hence a slave, non of what you quoted back is from the Bible, got the stuff on census from Wiki (the moden day equivalent).
As for the temple, it was not a tourist attraction, it was for Jews. Part of the temple was a courtyard where the people could witness the Jews worshiping, that court had been turned into a market place and why Jesus turned over the money tables etc.
If Jesus was around today, he would be probably have dropped in to Ibiza this summer and had a cookup on the beach; he was a rebel of the time and that's whey they crucified him; probably would be chained in at Dale farm.
Whether you live in luxury, poverty, peace or war, you end at the same destination. The question is what's next? The miracles are only there to show evidence that God is not silent but even in Jesus' time some didn't believe what they saw let along acounts of it. If he was here you'd have people explaining them away, if it's not a trick then just a outright lie.
According to scientists we are 99.999..% vacuous space and what is there doesn't weigh anything, bit like the Matrix, what you think is real is not.
I was answering the statement that Jesus was black and hence a slave, non of what you quoted back is from the Bible, got the stuff on census from Wiki (the moden day equivalent).
As for the temple, it was not a tourist attraction, it was for Jews. Part of the temple was a courtyard where the people could witness the Jews worshiping, that court had been turned into a market place and why Jesus turned over the money tables etc.
If Jesus was around today, he would be probably have dropped in to Ibiza this summer and had a cookup on the beach; he was a rebel of the time and that's whey they crucified him; probably would be chained in at Dale farm.
Whether you live in luxury, poverty, peace or war, you end at the same destination. The question is what's next? The miracles are only there to show evidence that God is not silent but even in Jesus' time some didn't believe what they saw let along acounts of it. If he was here you'd have people explaining them away, if it's not a trick then just a outright lie.
According to scientists we are 99.999..% vacuous space and what is there doesn't weigh anything, bit like the Matrix, what you think is real is not.