Smoking in Pubs...

[R2B2]

ASH is a respected body that has done a lot of recognised and credible work in this field providing the data to balance the manufacturers distorted information that was so damaging and prevalent in the years past.

It wouldn't be in their interest to manipulate any of the figures they work with, and indeed there is no need..... the facts are quite naturally damning enough without the need to dress them up!!

BUT... in the interests of a fair playing a field I'll see what else is about.... although if you were really committed to defending your side of the debate you should do that.

 

[Wolfie]

It wouldn't be in their interest to manipulate any of the figures they work with, and indeed there is no need..... the facts are quite naturally damning enough without the need to dress them up

they are an anti smoking group of course they are going to dress things up.

ASH is a respected body

by whom??? their mates, the people who pay them??? The people who agree with them???

that has done a lot of recognised and credible work in this field providing the data to balance the manufacturers distorted information that was so damaging and prevalent in the years past.

distorting figures is not credible, who ever they come from.

although if you were really committed to defending your side of the debate you should do that.

not having a debate, just trying to make people open their eyes and get their own figures and facts and not listen to some so called expert who gets vast amounts of money to say what somebody else wants them to say.


Remember question every thing and find out for yourselves, when you have, dont think you are right, cause you may just not be to somebody else.


Think out of the Box.

 

[R2B2]

Wolfie - if you are so sure that the ASH stats are so out of kilter, and that every fekker is lying in conspiracy against you, then you dig out the REAL figures (truthful one's mind you), and you post 'em, and we'll see how far the ASH figures have been cooked.

That way no evil conspirator like me, with duff information, can pull the wool over your eyes mate!

Course, all these thousands of people they bury each year with fekked up lungs and hearts are really healthy folk who are murdered by (whom?) just to back up the dodgy figures are they??? Eh???

You have your challenge - now lets see YOUR credible figures then... and their source.

 

[R2B2]

I've just learned some more about ASH. They are an independant charity so are not paid large amounts of money by anybody to say anything. They are not anti-smoker and are not trying to get smoking banned. Their mission is to educate people about the known risks associated with smoking so that they can be better informed about their choice to smoke or not. They do a lot of work with children in mind because children are so influenced by the actions of their parents.

These words I've pasted from their site:
___________________________________________________

ASH is not trying to get tobacco banned;

ASH is not anti-smoker nor do we condemn smoking. We recognise smoking is a powerful addiction that many struggle to overcome and see tobacco use as a complex phenomenon deeply embedded in society and needing a societal response.

ASH doesn?t run advertising campaigns, quit-smoking services, telephone helplines or No Smoking Day, but we work to ensure these are incorporated in an overall approach.

ASH is not focussed exclusively on children?s smoking. We focus on adult smoking because adults are at greatest risk, adults are most likely to respond, and because adult behaviour has the greatest influence on children.

Our mission?
ASH works by formulating the best information and analysis of the tobacco problem and credible responses, then communicates that to the public, opinion-formers and decision-makers in order to generate the public and political impetus for the measures that will reduce tobacco use and ultimately tackle the epidemic of disease and death that it causes.
_________________________________________________

 

[RHINO]

BAN IT

Ban it in public places like pubs/cafe's etc... My other half is a smoker and it was the one big thing that put me off when we met last year. I've banned it in the house and car recently and now they both smell much better.
We fall out on a regular basis over the smoking as she'll sit at the table when we go for a meal and light up a cig (very rude) but if i let out a big fart then i'd be a filthy animal (which one is naturally occuring)... We recently went on a short 30 min journey in the cage and she could'nt wait until arriving before sparking up a cig and almost pleaded with me to let her have one in the car :t ...
Nothing more romantic than an impulsive snog and a bit of a fettle,,,,,,soon to be halted by the smell of faggy fingers and stale faggy breath!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get a grip smokers and don't make me breath in your smoke and i wont FART in your face!!!
I go along with ROLFY D on this one,, blow it in my face and you'll get a punch in the chops $%3un

 

[frenchuk]

Nobody denies smokers the right to smoke, that's properly their choice. What they don't have the right to is to force other people to take part in the smokers' activities through passive smoking.
As alluded to in my earlier post, extraction is fekking crap and doesn't work
[/QUOTE]
DB, not true. extraction does work - go to any proper restaurant fitted with proper extraction and you'll see it works. People who can't be bothered fitting proper equipment usually can't be bothered fitting kitchens up to proper hygiene and health standards so sod them.

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Originally posted by frenchuk
rob, I take it you're gonna stop riding your bike and driving your car then...
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WTF has that to do with this issue.

WTF has that to do with this issue? Obvious! The debate is about the implication on other people who are affected by your activity isn't it? When you ride your bike you are polluting and anti-polution groups want you to stop, saying you affect them... what do you tell them? Fook off and don't stand in the way between me and my toy? Because whatever is your reply is the one I use with the anti-smoking lobby.:-:

 

[Wolfie]

That way no evil conspirator like me, with duff information, can pull the wool over your eyes mate!

nobody is pulling the wool over my eyes , cause i choose not believe anybody.

Evil conspirator?????? i dont do personnal, sorry.

Wolfie - if you are so sure that the ASH stats are so out of kilter, and that every fekker is lying in conspiracy against you

everybody lies to all of us each and every day in some way or another. is their job.

Course, all these thousands of people they bury each year with fekked up lungs and hearts are really healthy folk who are murdered by (whom?) just to back up the dodgy figures are they??? Eh???

air polution kills without a doubt, yes smoking is included, but so is vehicle exhausts, factory waste, fallouts, chemicals that are sprayed on our food in our water, carbon dioxide is on the increasing, oxygen is decreasing.

They are an independant charity so are not paid large amounts of money by anybody to say anything

ASH doesn?t run advertising campaigns, quit-smoking services, telephone helplines or No Smoking Day

so where does their money come from to run the expensive reasearch???

You have your challenge - now lets see YOUR credible figures then... and their source.

Sorry will not raise to the challenge, as i have no figures on hand nor the time to spend ages sorting piles of shit out to find find something that will benifit me.

I have no answers for you except,

Question everything and think out of the box.


Rhino

Get a grip smokers and don't make me breath in your smoke and i wont FART in your face!!!

Farting is fine by me. I never blow smoke into anybodies face.

I go along with ROLFY D on this one,, blow it in my face and you'll get a punch in the chops

As above i do not blow smoke into anybodies face , but is violence really the answer to all our problems????

 

[Supabird1100]

To put the opposing view that ASH takes, the pro-smoker's have FOREST...go look here for the info. www.forestonline.org

From their website.........

Like the vast majority of smokers, FOREST accepts many of the current restrictions on smoking. There is a huge difference, however, between restrictions and a total ban on smoking in public places and our goal is to create a society that can accommodate smokers without inconveniencing non-smokers. Specifically, we welcome the introduction of more smoke free areas (together with designated smoking areas), and we encourage the installation of better ventilation and modern air cleaning systems that will improve air quality for everyone, smokers and non-smokers alike.

 

[frenchuk]

yes Lumpy, yes!!!! You've touched the nerve! Ban drinking in pubs, I can't bear people being merry and becoming a bit loud and leary, plus some of them become violent when leaving said pub, cost money in health resource, police resource when police bothers answering calls, wake up sleeping neighbours, are a general nuisance, drink and drive issue here... enough inconvenience for a ban!!!
Diet pepsi? not a good idea, sugar is bad for you but the aspartam replacing the sugar in diet products is worth... so I tell you what, make pubs serve only water, sorted, no problems anymore - why nobody thought about that one before???

 

[RHINO]

LIMP COCK

:h Surely someone would'nt retaliate....ya mean....a fight!!! ..

If someone blows that shit in my face to make a point then i'll make my presence felt..

i'm not against the weed but i CHOOSE NOT to do it myself and don't want some arse head forcing it upon me,, i also cannot stand people who don't put them out properly and those who just chuck the dimp on the floor

Stub it out and put the dimp in your fag packet,,then when the pack is finished put it in the bin...it's just damn lazy.

 

[R2B2]

Oh dear...

Wolfies fallen at the first hurdle when his bluff is called on the statistics, (but he's only taking the p$ss anyway).

Frenchie still can't grasp the point, but never mind! So I run my bike engine in an enclosed room do I?? Duuhhh!!

I had a good browse around the Forest site as I was curious about what their take would be on the stats, in comparison to ASH. But they don't carry any tables or stats or figures of any sort. Wonder why not :dunno:

Did find a couple of statements like this one though, and they do run a quitting support page.

"Smoking and health

LIKE THE overwhelming majority of smokers, FOREST understands and fully accepts the health risks of smoking and the nature of that risk. Indeed, the health risks have been known for so long (the US Surgeon General first announced a link between smoking and lung cancer in 1964) there cannot be a sane adult in the UK who is not aware of the potential danger."

 

[Wolfie]

Wolfies fallen at the first hurdle when his bluff is called on the statistics, (but he's only taking the p$ss anyway).

Question Everything and Think outside the Box.

got you to do that did i not???

You choose to believe what you believe but at least now you have looked at both sides now, which is all i was trying to acceive.



:k :k :k

 

[frenchuk]

Originally posted by Rob P XX
Oh dear...
Frenchie still can't grasp the point, but never mind! So I run my bike engine in an enclosed room do I?? Duuhhh!!

Rob, I know you're just pulling my leg but for the benefit of those who think that you're serious: you might not be running your bike engine in an enclosed room, but your toy STILL participate to the overall pollution, to which anti-pollution lobbies object. So you say, go smoking somewhere else because I don't want you to affect me - they say, stop biking because we don't want you to affect us. Do you now see the correlation? It's about other people telling you what to do under the pretence that you affect them. I see your point about smoking but you can't have your cake and eat. If you say to anti-pollution people, yes I might affect you but I still choose to participate to pollution by riding my toy, I'm sure that you can understand if I have the same reply to non-smokers. On top of that, you can choose to not go in a smokey pub - people saying they're affected by you running your toy cannot walk away from it, since pollution is everywhere. Anyway, you were pulling my leg :k

 

[R2B2]

Originally posted by frenchuk
So you say, go smoking somewhere else because I don't want you to affect me - they say, stop biking because we don't want you to affect us. Do you now see the correlation?

NO... I dont see it!!

Pierre, you're incredible!! Look at your blaring contradiction above which PRECISELY illustrates the point you are STILL missing, even though you wrote it yourself!!

somewhere else...

stop biking...

Geddit???

I'm not explaining it any further - the difference is so obvious you MUST be taking the p$ss now, lol.

 

[ianrobbo1]

Calm down Rob m8,

:bow: I'll tell you why Pierre is trying so hard to justify smoking in public places,
It's because he is such a bad cook and burns everything,

the Only way he can ''get away'' with it is if everything else smells of smoke as well,!!:dunno:

and not being a ''Fan'' of french burn??soz, cooking, it would seem to be the best way of disguising the truly awfull smells of hopping snails and garlic eating horses,

and I also reckon it may be jealousy over the magnificent sausages, that you bring to our {bird} gatherings, being unable to bring any comparable offerings,:}

could try some of these,!!:blush:

 

[frenchuk]

well Rob... they tell you to stop biking because they can't tell you to go biking somewhere else, since anywhere you go biking you still pollute with your toy... don't you get it? Whatever we do there will be someone telling you you disturb them with your activity, they might have a point just like you have a point. Nothing personal, I'm not even a big smoker, but when I'm out to enjoy myself I don't want people to tell me what I can and can't do. Restaurant/bar/caf?/pub tells me I can't smoke? I don't go. Restaurant/bar/caf?/pub tells me I can smoke? You don't go. We still can meet at barbecues!!! And Ian, you're a phillistine :f

 

[ianrobbo1]

:} OH !! pierre, I'm not a Phillistine,!!

no m8, I'm english,!! :bow: I thought you would have guessed that, I cant even talk Phillistinian,!! :dunno:

 

[R2B2]

C'mon Pierre... admit it! You've nowhere else to go now on this one.

You've changed direction and deflected from the real issue of the thread, (the old reverse psychology ploy), so many times you've left us giddy tryin' to work out what your point is in relation to the point in question - just like you did in the Oil thread, remember??

The legislation will come anyway, whatever. You'll feel indignant about it at first but will accept it anyway. You might even give up!!


So how do you manage now if you have to use a taxi, or a plane.... or the cinema?? Do you insist it's your right to have a smoke....? (and for the second time, keep it on track!)

 

[frenchuk]

Rob, I let it go in the oil thread because that was pointless arguing with someone telling everyone that US didn't need oil, and being oblivious to the fact that if Bush was elected with oil money (nobody disputes that as the numbers are public knowledge), there was gonna be a payback time.
Now I won't let go on that one, it's just too easy to pretend not to understand for sake of convenience. Read my posts again: I didn't changed directions, I repeated the same thing in different ways so that people,including you, can understand what they somehow refuse to understand. Then the discussion evolved from just smoking / non-smoking to being told what to do by other people and I used this analogy to show just how you would feel if told you couldn't do something you enjoy because it affects other people, like pollution (which is not location specific hence the difference between smoking ban situation and riding bike situation), but that you couldn't face.
My argument proves too strong and the only way you find is being oblivious to it...
Like I said already few times, the issue here is about people saying other people that what they do bother them, and that they therefore should stop. Anti-smokers to smokers, Anti-pollution to polluters, biggots to alternative lifestyle people (for the sake of morale - their morale), anti-bikers to bikers, etc etc...
Can you really be oblivious to the very obvious similarity?
Of course the legislation will come because we live in a world of good doers biggots who like to tell people what to do and control every single element of our lives.
It could be simple: those restaurants / bars / pubs who want to make their place non-smoking do, and those who want to keep it smoking... well, keep it smoking. But no, that would be to simple, we need another law to tell us what to do...
Why do you think there is no more non-smoking pubs? Because they know they'd loose business, that's why!

 

[frenchuk]

Oh, and to finish with, I refer you to that post
Did you know that you are about to be permanently banned from using 6,000 miles of UK
Exactly same difference... If you're a rambler/non-smoker you're gonna say dirt bikes/smokers are a nuisance and gonna be happy that they are banned from tracks/restaurants-pubs etc, if you're an off-roader/smokers you're gonna be pissed off some want to stop you enjoying yourself WHERE you want to enjoy yourself... another obvious similarity...