Ramadan

[Davey Bee]

Why is there a mistrust of Moslems?
Because mostly they are insular & will not integrate.
The ones that can speak English choose not to even when in the company of English people.
They will not report when someone is radicallising or being radicallised in their mosque.
The problem lies with them & only they can change people's views of them.

Yes there are exceptions & it must be so frustrating for them.

How would you feel if you were a Christian & you entered a multi faith room & found all depictions/icons of your faith etc covered up because they offend the Moslems?

Sir, could you be kind enough to define which Moslems you're referring too.
Pakistanis, Arabs, Indian, Chinese, Bangladeshi, Indonesian, Turkish, Afghanistan, north American, Nigerian, Australian, Somalian, South African, Tunisian, Moroccan, Libyan, former Yugoslavian, Israeli, Palistinian, Jamaican, Cuban, Brazilian, Portuguese, or just those in West Yorkshire.

 

[Crazy Train]

Not at all. Your comment is quite objectionable.

Just expressing a genuine sentiment. What I forgot is that not everyone is open minded, or perhaps more accurately, does not have the willingness to be open minded to consider the sentiment expressed about a particular aspect of the Moslem faith.

You have used this site on a regular basis since 2005, and have over 10,800 posts.

How were you to know the likely result of starting such a topic?

 

[slim63]

ParticulY if you look at the first post. It was soon hijacked as a soapbox to spout off about Moslems.

:wank:s

Any discussion about faith or religious practice between a group people of different beliefs is always going to provoke conflict & I think you were fully aware of that when you posted :wank:

 

[noobie]

I have a question I hope someone can answer?

If you look world wise there is trouble in America, Europe, Oceana, Asia and even in the Middle East where Islam is at the very core of it. Even in the Middle east being the wrong type of Muslim see's wars, Beheadings and suicide bombers.

It is the sole constant in all of these countries and regions behind intolerance towards other faiths and lifestyles. You cannot blame the other countries as by their very nature they are incredibly diverse, so again what is the common denominator? Islam.

I think most countries, certainly through christianity, we learnt a long time ago religion is more likely to be the cause of war than any other reason so most have largely moved away from mass religion but more into a personal faith if that is your bag.

Islam however hasn't moved forward at all and in most cases seems to be moving backwards into a religious elitism that not only must you be a Muslim but you must be the right type of Muslim.

As a faith, Islam is more likely to be the cause of wars in our time, more likely to be the cause of unrest no matter what the continent and how diverse it is. It is as a faith, nothing more than a vehicle for bullies and dictators.

And before anyone says that is racist, you cannot be racist towards Muslims as it is a faith not a race. Discussing those who want to kill us is not racist, discussing a religion that wants to take us over and control everyone is not racist. Islam has a place in the world but it does not have a right to turn on everyone who does not agree with them. We need to stop pussy footing around it.

So after all that my question is, why is it no matter what the country, continent, faith or people, why is Islam at the centre of most of the worlds unrest?

 

[Pow-Lo]

You have used this site on a regular basis since 2005, and have over 10,800 posts.

How were you to know the likely result of starting such a topic?

Boom!

 

[Pow-Lo]

I have a question I hope someone can ask?

If you look world wise there is trouble in America, Europe, Oceana, Asia and even in the Middle East where Islam is at the very core of it. Even in the Middle east being the wrong type of Muslim see's wars, Beheadings and suicide bombers.

It is the sole constant in all of these countries and regions behind intolerance towards other faiths and lifestyles. You cannot blame the other countries as by their very nature they are incredibly diverse so again what is the common denominator? Islam.

I think most countries, certainly through christianity, we learnt a long time ago religion is more likely to be the cause of war than any other reason so most have largely moved away from mass religion but more into a personal faith if that is your bag.

Islam however hasn't moved forward at all and in most cases seems to be moving backwards into a religious elitism that not only must you be a muslim bit you must be the right type of muslim.

As a faith, Islam is more likely to be the cause of wars in our time, more likely to be the cause of unrest no matter what the continent and how diverse it is. It is as a faith, nothing more than a vehicle for bullies and dictators.

And before anyone says that is racist, you cannot be racist towards Muslims as it is a faith not a race. Discussing those who want to kill us is not racist, discussing a religion that wants to take us over and control everyone is not racist. Islam has a place in the world but it does not have a right to turn on everyone who does not agree with them. We need to stop pussy footing around it.

So after all that my question is, why is it no matter what the country, continent, faith or people, why is Islam at the centre of most of the worlds unrest?

What these mofos practice is not true Islam; theirs is a make-it-up-as-you-go-along-and-keep-shifting-the-goalposts version and it's a disease not a religion. The cure is a 9mm, cranially administered, anti-biotic.

 

[Barrie]

Which I suspect may have been your intention Mr Bee.

If one dares to comment on one of Andrew's posts, you may well be accused of being patronising or intolerant. Even patronisingly intolerant or intolerantly patronising. Either way, he will disagree with you.

 

[Cougar377]

Islam has been corrupted in much the same way as communism was by the Soviet bloc. In a lot of ways it has supplanted it as the number one threat to the West.

In both cases the fundamentals are sound, but all it took was for those with a hidden agenda to twist it to suit their own aims and then the shit hit the fan.
In both cases the people at the top of the tree didn't subscribe to the doctrine/faith that they preached but they knew how to manipulate others into believing that their way of life was under threat from a common enemy.
In both cases they saw weakness and an opportunity to exploit it.

The difference is that the West never allowed Communism to flourish.

We are in danger of returning to a Cold War paranoia unless we limit the ability of extremists to influence normal everyday Muslims.

The unfortunate truth is that we've let it go on too long unchecked and our options are now limited.
Restrict Islamic worship and you play into the hands of the extremists, do nothing and you play into the hands of the extremists.

So what to do ??

Whether you like it or not we are at war (in the same way that we were at "war" during the Cold War), just because it's not happening right here in Blighty doesn't mean it's not a threat.

I personally think there should be three levels of action:

1) Hearts and Minds.

Muslims need to self police more. I firmly believe that many Muslims know about the radicalisation that is going on through Mosques, the internet and social media. NIMBY-ism stops them doing anything. ISIS (the biggest threat at the moment) are doing a fine job of recruiting gullible young people through clever use of media.
We need to regain the initiative there. Deport/jail anyone who has been proven to be involved in the incitement of terrorism or religious hatred. Do it using British courts, not the European Court of Human Rights. In the case of deportation set the legal precedent that the Public Good takes priority over their so called human rights to remain resident here. The Human Rights of the British Public and our right to live peacefully without threat from such individuals should always come first.
Publicise the brutality that is being enacted by ISIS et al. Innocent people are being raped, murdered and brutalised by the hundreds and thousands. Unless you show the public what's really being done then they won't really believe it. A few words on the news, a sanitised picture or two just doesn't cut it. It's forgotten in minutes.
They are also systematically destroying historical sites and artifacts and selling ancient historical items on the black market to fund their efforts. It gets naff all publicity yet this is irreplaceable. Anyone buying these ancient artifacts should be prosecuted with the maximum publicity. If it's worth it for ISIS to do it then it's lucrative, which means that the funds are important to them. Terrorism doesn't run on thin air. Stop it.

2) Political Correctness.

It's time this was seriously reined back. Can't wear a cross, can wear a Burka. Sharia Law can take precedence over GB Law. Sorry..No. We are a tolerant country, yes...but we are fundamentally (in terms of core values) a Christian one. And that comes first, everytime.
As long as we look weak and accommodating then they'll believe we're ripe for conversion. After all, that's the extremists ultimate aim.

3) Decisive military action.

Stop pussyfooting around with a couple of aircraft strikes here, a few advisors there. The extremists in charge preach Jihad to brainwash the young people that they convince to leave and join them.
Jihad in this context is their "belief" that the Islamic faith is under constant threat from the evils of western society. Instead of leaving western society and just peacefully living in an Islamic one they choose to fight and die. That kind of commitment proves to me that we are not going to negotiate a peaceful settlement as long as western society continues and those extremists in charge take offence at its very existence.
The west/Nato has amassed a ridiculous amount of hardware and ordnance, together with a highly effective command and control structure. So FFS start using it effectively.

 

[Davey Bee]

I have a question I hope someone can answer?

If you look world wise there is trouble in America, Europe, Oceana, Asia and even in the Middle East where Islam is at the very core of it. Even in the Middle east being the wrong type of Muslim see's wars, Beheadings and suicide bombers.

It is the sole constant in all of these countries and regions behind intolerance towards other faiths and lifestyles. You cannot blame the other countries as by their very nature they are incredibly diverse, so again what is the common denominator? Islam.

I think most countries, certainly through christianity, we learnt a long time ago religion is more likely to be the cause of war than any other reason so most have largely moved away from mass religion but more into a personal faith if that is your bag.

Islam however hasn't moved forward at all and in most cases seems to be moving backwards into a religious elitism that not only must you be a Muslim but you must be the right type of Muslim.

As a faith, Islam is more likely to be the cause of wars in our time, more likely to be the cause of unrest no matter what the continent and how diverse it is. It is as a faith, nothing more than a vehicle for bullies and dictators.

And before anyone says that is racist, you cannot be racist towards Muslims as it is a faith not a race. Discussing those who want to kill us is not racist, discussing a religion that wants to take us over and control everyone is not racist. Islam has a place in the world but it does not have a right to turn on everyone who does not agree with them. We need to stop pussy footing around it.

So after all that my question is, why is it no matter what the country, continent, faith or people, why is Islam at the centre of most of the worlds unrest?

This is the narrative not of a racist, but a ill informed bigot. 70 years ago European Christians were trying to wipe Jews off the face of the earth with similar arguments to the one above. 20 years ago European Christians attempted to wipe Eastern European Muslims off the face of the earth with similar arguments to the one above. For most of my adult life European Christians have been murdering other European Christians because they were the wrong type of Christian. Selective history is always used to vindicate vilification of others. As I keep saying the views voiced by some here are the same as those coming from Islamic State followers. The other side of the same coin?
The above author won't read this, as I'm on his ignore list, yet again he'll only reads what fits his narrow views.

 

[andyBeaker]

You have used this site on a regular basis since 2005, and have over 10,800 posts.

How were you to know the likely result of starting such a topic?

What a load of cods.

Started as an intuitive insight into a particular aspect of a faith and it was hijacked by narrow mided diatribe.

Actually, thinking about it, you may be right but not for the reasons you think.

 

[andyBeaker]

If one dares to comment on one of Andrew's posts, you may well be accused of being patronising or intolerant. Even patronisingly intolerant or intolerantly patronising. Either way, he will disagree with you.

I cannot agree with you.

;-0))

Actually, what I cannot agree with is cyber warriors who post as they do not have to be responsible for the consequences. Some of the stuff on here recently (not just this thread) is beyond the pale and in the real world would lead to instant dismissal in the workplace.

Wonder if they are so brave in the real world?

8ree!

 

[sr71caspar]

Actually, what I cannot agree with is cyber warriors who post as they do not have to be responsible for the consequences. Some of the stuff on here recently (not just this thread) is beyond the pale and in the real world would lead to instant dismissal in the workplace.

Wonder if they are so brave in the real world?

8ree!

Interesting thoughts Andy.



Also, I didn't realise you could be sacked from work for discussing things down the pub.:dunno:

 

[Pow-Lo]

This is the narrative not of a racist, but a ill informed bigot. 70 years ago European Christians were trying to wipe Jews off the face of the earth with similar arguments to the one above. 20 years ago European Christians attempted to wipe Eastern European Muslims off the face of the earth with similar arguments to the one above. For most of my adult life European Christians have been murdering other European Christians because they were the wrong type of Christian. Selective history is always used to vindicate vilification of others. As I keep saying the views voiced by some here are the same as those coming from Islamic State followers. The other side of the same coin?
The above author won't read this, as I'm on his ignore list, yet again he'll only reads what fits his narrow views.

Ill informed bigot? You're kidding, right? If you can't see what's going on around you then there's no hope. Wake up and smell the coffee David, FFS!

 

[andyBeaker]

Interesting thoughts Andy.



Also, I didn't realise you could be sacked from work for discussing things down the pub.:dunno:

You might be surprised.

I was at a work quiz night a few years ago and one of the lads who was beered up (not unusual in itself) started hollering 'yiddo, yiddo, yiddo' at one of the other lads across the pub. First formal warning. And I don't have a problem with that.

Some might (and no doubt will) say 'pc gone mad' - I see the punishment as appropriate behaviour in a multi cultural society in 2015. When I started work it was OK to smoke in the office and have Sun Page 3 calendars hanging on the wall. Fortunately the world has moved on - Alf Garnett is no longer a role model.

In my view it is those that cannot get their head round the fact that a) the whole world is now almost exclusively multi cultural and/or b) do not understand that they have to accept the consequences of their actions that are among the most offensive people on the planet.

 

[noobie]

That of course works on the assumption multi culturism has worked andy and when you see whole communities distance themselves such as places like luton, rotherham, bradford etc it would appear multi culturism has failed on both sides and not just the one you would have us believe.

 

[andyBeaker]

That of course works on the assumption multi culturism has worked andy and when you see whole communities distance themselves such as places like luton, rotherham, bradford etc it would appear multi culturism has failed on both sides and not just the one you would have us believe.

I totally agree - my comments are aimed at all races/religions/colours. The same applies to all.

 

[Davey Bee]

Ill informed bigot? You're kidding, right? If you can't see what's going on around you then there's no hope. Wake up and smell the coffee David, FFS!

The point that I keep trying to make, is that we Muslim, Christian, black, white, yellow, working class, middle class, are conditioned to hate each other, and we do. Not realising that we are being manipulated by fat cats, on all sides. Ironically if you stand on the corner of Knightsbridge on any day, you'll see the wives, girlfriends, daughters mothers et all, of these fat cats shopping together. It's time that we realise that most people from all backgrounds want to live a peaceful life, feed their kids and see them do a little better than they did.
Wake up and smell the coffee FFS.

 

[slim63]

This has gone round & round in circles so many times its addled my poor little brain :-0)

One thing that does stand out though is that there are no easy solutions
:bang: Po low's suggestion does hold some attraction for me I admit :whi5tl:

I don't think it actually matters who started it when or even why, debating the historical reasons for all the trouble is by & large pointless IMHO what we need to do as a nation or group of nations is find a solution no matter how difficult or distasteful that may be, for the sake of our kids, grandkids & generations to come !

 

[noobie]

agreed, those continually quoting past history seem to be those saying well we did it so now it's their turn, normally the sign of someone trying to get gold in the oppression olympics whilst trying to justify the unjustifiable.

Nothing will change as long as we have tree hugging liberals stopping what needs to be done but more importantly until those closest who have the financial strings, saudi arabia, yemen, qatar, iran etc get a taste of isis encroaching on them, then they will be happy to let it keep going.

Until then the best we can do is if they step out of line on our shores then we should give them an almighty bitch slap. My own preference is to flatten Al-Raqqah, isis's base and command centre. just to remind them who wears the big boy pants.

We have allowed them too much freedom and it's time to take it back and in turn just might save some innocent muslims at the same time. I would also arm the kurds up the ying yang as they seem to be one of the few groups in the middle east who genuinely want isis gone but desperately need decent equipment and financial support.

 

[derek kelly]

Sir, could you be kind enough to define which Moslems you're referring too.
Pakistanis, Arabs, Indian, Chinese, Bangladeshi, Indonesian, Turkish, Afghanistan, north American, Nigerian, Australian, Somalian, South African, Tunisian, Moroccan, Libyan, former Yugoslavian, Israeli, Palistinian, Jamaican, Cuban, Brazilian, Portuguese, or just those in West Yorkshire.

Moslem is a religion not a race.