Let's see if they try to cover this one up

rovinghawk · 19/5/10

morphgarth said:
I doubt very much that he is, as yet, in a public facing role.

I'm pleased to hear it. What does a 'response officer' do, then?

you may not agree with the punishment handed down but that's why we have judges.

I totally accept that.

the force acknowedged and accepeted some of the responsibility.

But nobody in the force will be held accountable for their mistakes. That was the point I was trying to make.

I imagine that there is no-one that feels as bad about this as he does.

If that's the case then I'm pleased he's aware of his guilt.

what I object to is the quite horrible gloating tone that came out in your post

My apologies for the misunderstanding- it's not gloating in the slightest- it's annoyance that a load of excuses get trotted out about being a victim rather than a perpetrator..

this particular anti-police soap

I'm actually pro-police; I'm anti BAD police. To be fair, I'm also anti criminal & anti bad civil service.

RH

derek kelly · 19/5/10

Morph, don't take this as a jibe at Police in general, as you know I am very pro police however I believe that this particular guy has got away lightly, what illness would cause you to leave dogs in a car on a hot day? what would the reaction have been if they had been children & not dogs that died in the car?
This is something I feel really strongly about, I cannot stand animal cruelty & some of the sentences handed out to perpetrators of animal cruelty are pathetic.
I have berated one or two [so called] dog handlers at work for the way they have treated their dogs, I know they are working animals but there is absolutely no excuse for cruelty & leaving dogs in a hot car is cruelty regardless of who the perpetrator is or for whatever reason.
I know that you cannot answer for the copper in question but you shouldn't have to he should be made to answer for himself.

morphgarth · 19/5/10

Derek, he had a form of OCD which caused him to be unable to leave the task he was doing to go back to the dogs.
The argument about what if it was kids is somewhat purile.
He has answered for himself in a court of law and at a disciplinary hearing. How many bites at the cherry do you want?

Centaur · 19/5/10

Aw borrox

I was going to say sommat but I think the subject has been done to death. Feck it.... I met several dog handlers in Cheshire Constab and to a man they LOVED their dogs. I don't doubt he was the same! Sad all round.

rovinghawk · 19/5/10

RHINO said:
Now, was he to ignore a lawfull order and NOT attend his meeting?
Was he to ignore 'force procedure' and dump the dogs in the kennel for 20 mins risking a discipline procedure?

Was it OCD or a lawful order? It seems that the story changes from time to time.

RH

derek kelly · 19/5/10

morphgarth said:
Derek, he had a form of OCD which caused him to be unable to leave the task he was doing to go back to the dogs

Sorry I dont buy that, my daughter has ocd but if her animals need seeing to it doesn't matter what job she is doing she leaves it & tends to her animals.

morphgarth said:
The argument about what if it was kids is somewhat purile.

How is it peurile? if he left his kids baking in the car & couldn't leave the task in hand to see to them then he would have faced a murder/manslaughter charge regardless of ocd.

morphgarth said:
He has answered for himself in a court of law and at a disciplinary hearing. How many bites at the cherry do you want?

As the saying goes, "the law is an ass" yes he's had his day in court & like any defendant has done everything he can to persuade the judge to be lenient.

Suppose the guy hadn't been a copper, suppose he was an unmarried father living on benefits would the courts have been so lenient? more to the point would you be on here defending him?

One of my closest friends, a colleague who I have known & trusted for over 25 years is suspended at the moment, if it is proven that he is guilty then he will get no sympathy or support from me.

morphgarth · 19/5/10

derek kelly said:
Sorry I dont buy that, my daughter has ocd but if her animals need seeing to it doesn't matter what job she is doing she leaves it & tends to her animals.

How is it peurile? if he left his kids baking in the car & couldn't leave the task in hand to see to them then he would have faced a murder/manslaughter charge regardless of ocd.

As the saying goes, "the law is an ass" yes he's had his day in court & like any defendant has done everything he can to persuade the judge to be lenient.

Suppose the guy hadn't been a copper, suppose he was an unmarried father living on benefits would the courts have been so lenient? more to the point would you be on here defending him?

One of my closest friends, a colleague who I have known & trusted for over 25 years is suspended at the moment, if it is proven that he is guilty then he will get no sympathy or support from me.

Derek, I haven't defended him, look back through my posts. I thought he deserved a day in court, he got that, he got punished taking into account the mitigating circmstances and he then got disciplined. I am simply saying he has been punished in accordance with the law of the land.

Move on.

My last post on this subject.

rovinghawk · 27/6/11

Oh look- they've not learned the lessons

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13932187

Let's see what excuses are made for it this time & how the handler is magically turned into a victim of circumstance.

RH

edit: It seems this particular guy killed a police dog before- they promoted him & now he had 2 dogs to kill. I wonder whether they'll promote him again?

Pow-Lo · 27/6/11

bishbosh said:
Twenty minutes is not long at all!!

Hopefully someone will test how quickly a car heats up under the sun at say 30 deg c (ambient temp) and say how long until a dog will start to be in distress, let alone suffer as there will be many dog owners clueless on the dangers.

Maybe they should say that over a certain ambient temp, no children or pets should be left in a car.

What then, all parents and/or dog owners should carry a thermometer?

Probably best tojust not leave dogs in the car on a warm day, end of.

bishbosh · 28/6/11

Pow-Lo said:
What then, all parents and/or dog owners should carry a thermometer?

Probably best tojust not leave dogs in the car on a warm day, end of.

So what then is a warm day? Many cars have an ambient temp sensor and if you are a dog owner then you should get one; if you can't be bothered it shows lack of care really.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/allaboutani...tM4m00c6BLsgXhthQJsgv!699606033!1309255139930

Pow-Lo · 29/6/11

bishbosh said:
So what then is a warm day? Many cars have an ambient temp sensor and if you are a dog owner then you should get one; if you can't be bothered it shows lack of care really.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/allaboutani...tM4m00c6BLsgXhthQJsgv!699606033!1309255139930

My car has a temperature sensor but I wouldn't leave my dog in the car, end of.

bishbosh · 29/6/11

Pow-Lo said:
My car has a temperature sensor but I wouldn't leave my dog in the car, end of.

Here, here.

jontheone · 30/6/11

as an owner of a german shepherd it saddens me that they died.
if they were in a police vehicle then he should not be prosecuted as that is where they spend most of their day when at work.
if it was his own car then he should be prosecuted and sacked.

its funny though how police criticism generates so much interest, there are numerous incidents of dog cruelty that is "intentional" that goes unnoticed and uncommented on.

he made a big unintentional mistake.
rovinghawk could really get his teeth into some of those cases. but wont.

rovinghawk · 30/6/11

jontheone said:
he made a big unintentional mistake.

Twice, as I understand it. Do you think he should be promoted again & given some more dogs?
But let's face it, going to another county to a meeting on the hottest day of the year leaving 2 dogs in a car when you've previously killed a dog the same way is a bit more than an unintentional mistake.

rovinghawk could really get his teeth into some of those cases. but wont.

I dislike any animal cruelty; I once attempted to have someone prosecuted for cruelty to a kitten but the case didn't go anywhere.
In most of the other cases, though, I wasn't helping to pay for the dogs & their handler's salary/pension/perks.

RH

Duck n Dive · 30/6/11

I've just read elsewhere that this practice is commonplace among police dog handlers and for a reason.

Apparently (or should that be allegedely?!!) transporting the dogs in their own vehicle and not using any police kenneling facilities means that they can claim additional allowances and tax free payments etc.

The suggestion is that by leaving the animals in their own vehicle for the day/shift an additional ?50.00 tax free can be claimed.

If this is true :cry:

Welcome to T4 Tax Limited's specialist service for Police Dog Handlers. If you are a police dog handler in the UK this page and our services in this area could save you money!
Claiming relief on your travelling expenses? Tax relief for travel costs with your police dog is tax deductible subject to certain conditions. Are you claiming the relief you are entitled to?

derek kelly · 30/6/11

At one time (not so long ago) when Prison dog handlers were trained by police in Durham they were taught that the best way to master a GSD was to raise its front legs off the floor & give it a good thump in the Stomach, when Police officers in Chelmsford were jailed for using this practice I thought "good now they will think more about the welfare of the animal" it appears that some are just either heartless or just useless & couldn't be trusted with a goldfish let alone a GSD.

jontheone · 30/6/11

dear mr rovinghawk, if you read my brief post i said if it were true he should be prosecuted and sacked.
not promoted and given more dogs.

you are now just being silly.

rovinghawk · 1/7/11

jontheone said:
dear mr rovinghawk, if you read my brief post i said if it were true he should be prosecuted and sacked.
not promoted and given more dogs.

you are now just being silly.

It happened last time- why is it silly to think it might happen again?

RH

jontheone · 1/7/11

read what i put
why wud i suggest he be promoted and given more dogs.
strange

rovinghawk · 1/7/11

jontheone said:
read what i put
why wud i suggest he be promoted and given more dogs.
strange

I agree you didn't suggest it; I pointed out that he seems to have done well out of the first time he killed a police dog.

RH

Let's see if they try to cover this one up

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Make civil the mind, make savage the body.

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