should the death penalty be brought back??

[derek kelly]

Unpleasant? what more unpleasant than to expect DK to show up and there being no escape . (Sorry Derek, couldn't resist)

Don't apologise Barrie, if legislation was my department then I would make it an unpleasant experience for prisoners to meet me & my fellow officers, then just maybe they would think twice next time they were about to commit a crime.

 

[roXXo]

Don't apologise Barrie, if legislation was my department then I would make it an unpleasant experience for prisoners to meet me & my fellow officers, then just maybe they would think twice next time they were about to commit a crime.

The point is Derek, that they don't think once let alone twice.
Just like accidents happening to other people, criminals think that getting caught will not happen to them.

 

[derek kelly]

The point is Derek, that they don't think once let alone twice.
Just like accidents happening to other people, criminals think that getting caught will not happen to them.

If the death penalty were brought back they wouldn't have chance to think twice.

 

[Barrie]

Don't apologise Barrie, if legislation was my department then I would make it an unpleasant experience for prisoners to meet me & my fellow officers, then just maybe they would think twice next time they were about to commit a crime.

I think my son, Neil (Parttimepilot) would agree with you too. He can be a nasty bugger b0x2

 

[roXXo]

Prison may work as a deterent in some cases, and rehabilitation may work in some cases, but if Prison was totally effective as a punishment and a deterent to stop people offending and re offending, there wouldn't be any more crime/ criminals.

Likewise the death penalty does not stop people commiting heinous crimes.

One may think that prison and the death penalty are the right and proper punishments but they will never stop crime. Those countries that have the harshest regimes and the death penalty still have prisons full of criminals and regular state killings.

It would be good that you were out of a job Derek (in the nicest possible way), but there will always be nasty people on this earth who don't care or don't think and whatever one would like to do to them, the problem will never be eradicated.

The judical system in this country or anywhere on this earth will never be perfect, or results 100% accurate because Humans make mistakes.

If you think that it is acceptable that a few innocent people are put to death in error, in order to satisfy your feelings of revulsion, revenge, a suitable trade off/punishment, how would you feel if one of your family were hanged for something they did not do.

You can debate hypothetical situations in a perfect judicial system, but we do not live in one and there will never be one.

 

[roXXo]

It certainly wiped the smile from the two fishermen who were convicted of killing that student 3 weeks ago when the death sentance was passed. I'm all for the death sentence but what does piss me off is the police/cps suppressing evidence to obtain a conviction when it is very obvious that the evidence suppressed would have freed the suspect.
Roy

Even though they knew there was the death penalty, it did not prevent them from killing.
The death penalty is not a deterrent.
People always think that they will never be found out/caught.

 

[derek kelly]

Killing inncocent people can not be justified, however my point has always been that more innocent people have been killed by people who have served a life sentence & been released, than innocent people sent to the gallows

The killing of innocent people in the name of war is supposedly justified by claiming that it is for the protection of future innocent generations

 

[roXXo]

Killing inncocent people can not be justified, however my point has always been that more innocent people have been killed by people who have served a life sentence & been released, than innocent people sent to the gallows

The killing of innocent people in the name of war is supposedly justified by claiming that it is for the protection of future innocent generations

So you would be happy for the "greater good" that an innocent member of your family were hanged?

 

[derek kelly]

So you would be happy for the "greater good" that an innocent member of your family were hanged?

Of course I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't be happy if a paedo or murderer was released from prison and attacked my kids.

 

[roXXo]

Of course I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't be happy if a paedo or murderer was released from prison and attacked my kids.

No nobody would derek.

Your point is

You want the death penalty because it would certainly stop a person re offending.

If, say 6 people were hanged for heinous crimes and afterwards it was proved that 1 was innocent, you are satisfied in that trade off. In that it stops re offending.

There isn't a satisfactory answer. As with most things, we have to compromise.
That's just the way it is.

 

[derek kelly]

If those 6 people were sentenced to life imprisonment & were released after 12 years & five of them went on to kill again that is five innocent deaths that could have been prevented, five family's left devastated by something that was preventable, so would I rather see one innocent person sent to the gallows than five innocent people killed? in a word, Yes.

 

[roXXo]

If those 6 people were sentenced to life imprisonment & were released after 12 years & five of them went on to kill again that is five innocent deaths that could have been prevented, five family's left devastated by something that was preventable, so would I rather see one innocent person sent to the gallows than five innocent people killed? in a word, Yes.

and if that innocent person was a member of your family?

You are more of an altruist than I could ever be Derek.

There will never be agreement, or a satisfactory solution. Interesting debate though it is.
I wonder what the views of the originator of this topic are?

 

[derek kelly]

The chances of a member of my family going to prison for something they haven't done are very remote, the chances of them actually committing a crime are even more remote.

The chances of any of my family becoming a victim of violent crime are very strong [statistically].

If they should be sent down when I knew they were innocent I would be at the head of the queue to prove their innocence.

If they were killed by someone who had already served a life sentence I would be at the head of the queue demanding to know why the killer was back on the streets.

 

[R2B2]

In an ideal world we would have our cake and eat it........

 

[Tiggi]

It seems to me that we should be taking a long view on this one. If the human race is ever to develop in a positive way, we need to to understand these people & what it is that makes them offend. Without this we are resigning ourselves to the status quo (All 3 chords !!).

I don't expect this to be a popular view, but someone needs to take a stand against ugly mob rule.

Fact: Capital punishment is no deterrent
Fact: Innocents do die where CP is used
Fact: Where CP is used, it tends to discriminate against minority groups
Fact: CP without adequate checks & balances is easily used by corrupt elements to dispose of "Undesirables"
Fact: Rape & murder are still rare. Since WW2 we have been through a bit of a golden age, But murder rates now are lower than historically.
Fact: Believing everything you read in The Daily Mail makes you look a bit of a wanker

 

[derek kelly]

It seems to me that we should be taking a long view on this one. If the human race is ever to develop in a positive way, we need to to understand these people & what it is that makes them offend. Without this we are resigning ourselves to the status quo (All 3 chords !!).


Psychologists have been trying for the past 25 years but they still have no answers
I don't expect this to be a popular view, but someone needs to take a stand against ugly mob rule.

A democratic vote is'nt mob rule just because you disagree with it

Fact: Capital punishment is no deterrent
But it is a prevention
Fact: Innocents do die where CP is used
More innocents die where it isn't used
Fact: Where CP is used, it tends to discriminate against minority groups
If you class murderers & paedo's as a minority group
Fact: CP without adequate checks & balances is easily used by corrupt elements to dispose of "Undesirables"
But less so now with genetic fingerprinting
Fact: Rape & murder are still rare. Since WW2 we have been through a bit of a golden age, But murder rates now are lower than historically.
Don't know where you dug that one up from
Fact: Believing everything you read in The Daily Mail makes you look a bit of a wanker

Believing everything you read in the Daily Star makes you look an even bigger wanker

Can I come & live on your pink fluffy planet please?

Btw welcome to the forum, I see you are already joining in the banter, may you continue to enjoy doing so.

 

[Tiggi]

Thanks for the welcome, Derek.

No, you can't come & live on my pink, fluffy planet !! No Mail readers man8um .

I appreciate your point-by point analysis of my dissertation, but you are, of course, entirely wrong d04l1ng .

 

[derek kelly]

Thanks for the welcome, Derek.
You're most welcome.
No, you can't come & live on my pink, fluffy planet !! No Mail readers man8um .
I read as many papers as I can, that way I can have a more broadminded view of a subject & not be blinkered [anyway the mail has a good crossword]
I appreciate your point-by point analysis of my dissertation, but you are, of course, entirely wrong d04l1ng .
Take a look at the vote count, the majority say I'm right

I think this thread is turning into the fox hunting debate again.

 

[Tiggi]

Take a look at the vote count, the majority say I'm right

Popularity is proof of nothing: Take Celine Dion.

.....and on the subject of fox-hunting...........:rant: :rant: :rant:

 

[roXXo]

It seems to me that we should be taking a long view on this one. If the human race is ever to develop in a positive way, we need to to understand these people & what it is that makes them offend. Without this we are resigning ourselves to the status quo (All 3 chords !!).

I don't expect this to be a popular view, but someone needs to take a stand against ugly mob rule.

Fact: Capital punishment is no deterrent
Fact: Innocents do die where CP is used
Fact: Where CP is used, it tends to discriminate against minority groups
Fact: CP without adequate checks & balances is easily used by corrupt elements to dispose of "Undesirables"
Fact: Rape & murder are still rare. Since WW2 we have been through a bit of a golden age, But murder rates now are lower than historically.
Fact: Believing everything you read in The Daily Mail makes you look a bit of a wanker

Youv'e managed to state my points in one post that took me about five.

Interestingly wasn't it Nietsche (sp) that said "There are no facts, only interpretations"
:beer: