• Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )

Foxhunting-thanks Ritchie for the idea

  • Thread starter KevKing
  • Start date
R

R2B2

Guest
trophychap said:
I keep seeing the words most people want it banned being used frequently in this debate forgive me if I am wrong but I don't recall the nation having had a referendum on the subject so where are these figures comming from?
Errr... do I detect a little contradiction here....

trophychap said:
Driving round the countryside as I do every other day I keep seeing posters saying 59% say keep hunting..... that says to me that there are only 41% of people that want so see hunting with dogs banned.

:dunno: :dunno:

You cant have it both ways mate!

If we're honest now, I dont think there's ever been any doubt who the majority is. Whenever I've heard a foxhunting discussion in recent years, or taken part in one, the overwhelming majority have ALWAYS been against it. I have NEVER heard those in favour make up the majority of a debate. Bit like this thread really. These observations must be representative, surely...?
 

Wolfie

Is a lunp
If you were an MP and you had a very definite view on something (mind you, that would prolly disqualify you LOL) even though you knew very well that the majority of your constituents had the opposite view on whatever it was - how would YOU vote?

by the people for the people
 
K

KevKing

Guest
My my its all getting a bit heated here. Anyhow, the reason I stay on my side of the fence is the same as most on the other side. Because IMHO I believe that fox hunting does not harm ANY people, provides jobs, sport and exercise for many and as far as I know is not carcinogenic, like smoking or drinking excessively - lets ban them shall we? Or perhaps fishing -oh no, too many people like that. Drag hunting is a bit like drag queens, not quite the real thing but an acceptable substitute on occasion. Anyone who thinks we have a democratic voting process such that the majority wants to ban hunting should remember that only around 30% of eligible adults voted in the last election and only around 30% of them voted labour. With my average maths that makes a total of just 9% of the voting population - not exactly a majority. Sure, express an opinion but- it doesnt directly affect you antis apart from on an emotional level, so why bother - bet you wont be so vehement about a ban on smoking, drinking or fishing??! In fact, you were all so upset that exactly ZERO of you came out to protest against our last hunt meet, even though it was well advertised - apathy or was it just raining too hard for you??
 
R

roXXo

Guest
People who don't vote don't deserve a say/opinion.
They can ban smoking for me.
I believe there were calls for banning angling 30 years ago but I think because fish are not mammals and they are not killed, unless you want to eat them, there was less support for a ban. One of the big concerns with anglers was the use of lead shot. That has been addressed with the use of non toxic weights. Still a concern though is reckless anglers throwing away lengths of fishing line and the hazards that this presents to wildlife. Hopefully education is working and the situation is better now.

Drag hunting still provides all the fun and employment.

The drag queen statement was quite funny, but that's all it is.

I am not a passionate anti fox hunter but I would like to see it stopped.

Do you ride Kev?

What's a Navel aviator?

:beer:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

derek kelly

The Deli lama
Club Sponsor
KevKing said:
My my its all getting a bit heated here. Anyhow, the reason I stay on my side of the fence is the same as most on the other side. Because IMHO I believe that fox hunting does not harm ANY people, Only defenceless animals provides jobs, sport How can you call murder, sport?and exercise for many and as far as I know is not carcinogenic, like smoking or drinking excessively - lets ban them shall we? I don't smoke so a ban would not affect me, and as for alchohol I could live without it, Or perhaps fishing -oh no, too many people like that.Scientists have proved that fish have no nerves in their mouths so do not feel pain from the hook, if they prove otherwise I will give up fishing, anglers with the exception of a mindless minority do more good than harm to the rivers lakes and countryside. Drag hunting is a bit like drag queens, not quite the real thing but an acceptable substitute on occasion. Anyone who thinks we have a democratic voting process such that the majority wants to ban hunting should remember that only around 30% of eligible adults voted in the last election and only around 30% of them voted labour. With my average maths that makes a total of just 9% of the voting population - not exactly a majority.It was still the majority of people who expressed a preference, as with all votes the majority won it. Sure, express an opinion but- it doesnt directly affect you antis apart from on an emotional level, so why bother It did not directly affect me when the miners went on strike over the closure of the pits but people are now wishing they had backed the miners- bet you wont be so vehement about a ban on smoking, drinking or fishing??! See aboveIn fact, you were all so upset that exactly ZERO of you came out to protest against our last hunt meet, even though it was well advertised - apathy or was it just raining too hard for you?? Wasn't so long ago a famous hunt was called off because of the weather


I hope this answers your questions, just out of interest are you a NCO?
 
R

R2B2

Guest
KevKing said:
I believe that fox hunting does not harm ANY people, provides jobs, sport and exercise for many and as far as I know is not carcinogenic, like smoking or drinking excessively
And still you dodge the issue of cruelty! Why do you refuse to acknowledge this although it would seem to be the major point of objection for the people who are agianst hunting.

However you look at the actual killing of the fox by the the hounds, you cannot escape the fact that the fox WILL suffer. It is not Instant. A bullet in the brain would be instant. An attack by hysterical dogs is not!! Those are the facts, unless you can convince otherwise.

If you dont overcome an objection..... it keeps coming back. Convince us sceptics - in the killing of the fox by the dogs, does the fox suffer..??

Yes or No.

It's as clear as that.
 

birdinflight

Registered User
We are all referring to the

actual killing of the fox as cruel, but has anyone thought of the terrible fear this animal must feel whilst being chased by a pack of hounds, horses and people. Animals do feel fear.

They are animals that have young, which they try to protect, they have maternal feelings too, it can leave young foxes without care.

The peak of the breeding season for foxes is in late January, and the season lasts until March or so.
During the breeding season, the female is in oestrus for up to 4 days, often mating several times during that period. She will be pregnant for 52 days, and only have 1 litter per year. They will normally have 2-6 cubs.

The hunting season is:
Autumn hunting: late Aug - late Oct/early Nov
Full season: late Oct/early Nov - mid-Mar/early Apr

So how many young foxes are left to die without food, warmth and care. How many pregnant females are hunted down.

some interesting facts......

Foxes are sometimes accused of killing for fun. If a fox is presented with an abundance of prey, it will kill what it can and then cache what it cannot eat to save for leaner times. This phenomenon is common amongst top predators and is known as 'surplus killing'. The fox is quick to recieve blame for behaviour that is usually the work of pet cats & dogs. It is a scavenger, looking for easy meals, so to attack a dog, cat, child, cow or sheep is a waste of effort. It is true that a fox will take livestock such as chickens, rabbits & guinea pigs if they are not properly secured. Captive fowl will always be in danger, as we clip their wings, preventing them from escape, & we keep them in high density in poorly secured cages. A fox will kill all of them, so that it can return & take them off to be buried for later use. As they can only carry one at a time, it will obviously take a while to cache all of them which they will if not disturbed, which they usually are. The behaviour of man in removing the birds escape response, & not providing adequate protection afterwards is more at fault than a hungry fox.


======================================

In areas of high human persecution of foxes, such disruption results in an increase in fertile vixens and larger litter sizes - a biological response which restores the population to its natural level.

=======================================

Killing foxes, by whatever method, merely creates vacant territory which will quickly be filled by other foxes. Killing foxes as a means of population control is ineffective, usually involves unnecessary suffering and can even worsen any problems.

===================================

Post-mortem evidence has proved that lambs taken by foxes are likely to be either already dead, or weak, non-viable lambs

=================================

Red Foxes can live for up to nine or ten years, but most will only survive to the age of one or two

================================

When a fox kills, it does so quietly, with a quick bite to the back of the neck. Many 'fox' attacks can be attributed to dogs, who attack the soft underbelly of their prey first. Hunters will say that hounds kill foxes with a quick bite to the back of the neck, whilst video footage will show them tearing at the foxes stomach.

=============================

Also have a look at this link. Some interesting myths are dispelled regarding fox hunting. Read it all, its very very enlightening, I was drawn to this one which is very sad............myths and lies and the truth

Lie 18. "Only in hunting is the fox never left wounded or to die slowly. The kill is either outright or the fox gets away unscathed."

The facts: Foxes which escape from the hounds after a long chase may die from trauma after the hunt.
 

derek kelly

The Deli lama
Club Sponsor
Thanks BIF, I have now downloaded and printed Myths & lies, and also added it to my favourites, pretty much answers any arguments that pro hunters may feel that they have,
Earlier on in this thread I pointed out the suffering of the chase by mentioning that foxes are chased until their lungs burst, somebody actually took this in the literal sense, but the fact is foxes that manage to escape the hunt often die of respiratory problems brought about by the chase, and as you say often leaving young cubs to fend for themselves, A few years back when we had our small holding we were surrounded by pigeon fanciers, we even had one on our land, they were always setting traps for the foxes and cats, we used to go out and spring any traps that we found, we once found a fox that had been cornered by one of these pigeon fanciers and battered with a spade, my wife and children were in tears that night as we could hear the pitiful cries of fox cubs, but they were so well hidden we could not find them, that sound is with me and my family and will be till we breathe our last breath.
There is no way on this Earth anyone can convince me that the killing of defenceless animals by so called civilised people is sport.
 
K

KevKing

Guest
roXXo said:
Do you ride Kev?

What's a Navel aviator?

:beer:

I ride all sorts of things...! Horses I ride badly which is why I stick to chasing along on foot, bike car etc

The second is just a play on words. I used to be a Naval Aviator. The answer to the question of whether I was an NCO is No, I was an officer. I am now a merchant navy officer instead, more time off and better tax breaks!
 

duncan

Registered User
what a great thread that was eight pages and no one mentioned the colour of their bike .Totally against fox hunting by the way
 

derek kelly

The Deli lama
Club Sponsor
duncan said:
what a great thread that was eight pages and no one mentioned the colour of their bike .Totally against fox hunting by the way





That's why fox's sometimes get caught....coz they are the slow red colour
 
Z

Zoffo

Guest
duncan said:
what a great thread that was eight pages and no one mentioned the colour of their bike .Totally against fox hunting by the way
Yep! Now what's next...Ah yes...GOD fact or fiction? %$fan
 

gypsy

MAN on the PAN
should Coarse Fishing be banned ?
your not allowed to eat most of them so why pull them around with a hook?
 

mal 97

Registered User
some of my ex military training was escape and evasion, now what i'am proposin is lettin all the fox hunters run off for a count of 100 then me and my draganov sv snipers rifle go a huntin! then see how they like it. no good hiding down the hole cos i'll just dig you out. sounds like fun to me.
but hey what do i know i'am just a country bumkin :shooter:
 

derek kelly

The Deli lama
Club Sponsor
mal 97 said:
some of my ex military training was escape and evasion, now what i'am proposin is lettin all the fox hunters run off for a count of 100 then me and my draganov sv snipers rifle go a huntin! then see how they like it. no good hiding down the hole cos i'll just dig you out. sounds like fun to me.
but hey what do i know i'am just a country bumkin :shooter:



Too quick mate, not cruel enough, for it to be a sport you need to physically chase them and then rip them to shreds,

BTW, hard luck at the weekend, your team did themselves proud,
 
R

roXXo

Guest
KevKing said:
I ride all sorts of things...! Horses I ride badly which is why I stick to chasing along on foot, bike car etc

The second is just a play on words. I used to be a Naval Aviator. The answer to the question of whether I was an NCO is No, I was an officer. I am now a merchant navy officer instead, more time off and better tax breaks!

Only being nosey Kev :blush:
Air/Sea, only Land to go for your next change of career :}
 
Top