Foxhunting-thanks Ritchie for the idea

[KevKing]

Following on from Ritchies comment about banning smoking in pubs(see below) ...So why are our myopic and city-loving government banning foxhunting? Putting peoples jobs at risk in favour of a furry pest? Banning hundreds of years of tradition coz they dont like the scary countryside? Lets have your views and I will try to keep order in the house m'lud. You can probably guess which side of the fence I am on!

http://www.bikersoracle.com/blackbird/forum/showpost.php?p=161798&postcount=19
g0551p

 

[Scalesy]

In at the deep end?

Ok here goes having lived in semi rural Essex may pose a problem as not a big hunting area though there are a few hunts about.

I am sceptical that hunting can be justified.

I dont see how the actual "kill" can be classified as anything but cruel!

I dont see how it can be classed as effective pest control given the effort to kill ratio?

Are foxes as big a threat to farmers as they are claimed to be?

Does a fox in a hen house grab his dinner and bugger off or does he off the lot?

Do hunt supporters actually support, or are they just trying to protect their jobs?

All the dressing up is austentatious and pointless.

Foxhounds seem to be indescriminate about what they will rip to shreads ie cats

Is there no other effective measure of control?

A few answers may make me less certain of my objections I am open to reason.:dunno:

 

[R2B2]

Banning hundreds of years of tradition

This is one of the weakest arguments for foxhunting, and a bit daft in my opinion. The notion that foxhunting is somehow not cruel because it's an old tradition beggars belief!!

Another one is the accusation that town folk "do not understand". I think you could come from anywhere and still understand the blatant cruelty that is chasing an animal to the point of exhaustion with a pack of dogs that are far more capable of sustaining that chase, and then have those dogs tear the outnumbered animal apart while alive.

It's obscenely cruel however you look at it.

I understand and agree with the need for pest control, but in a society that upholds and generally respects animal welfare there is no place for this. There must be other effective ways.

And as for the thousands of jobs.... they will find something else, like the millions that have been made redundant before them.

 

[derek kelly]

A number of hunts have actually been caught breeding foxes specifically for the hunt, so their argument that they are doing the countryside a favour is bollocks,

Most serial killers start out by torturing and murdering animals,

Pro hunters think they are above the law, as is proven by their comments when the ban was announced,

If the number of foxes is out of control then kill them humanely, not run them until their lungs burst then have them ripped to shreds, the only people who get pleasure out of that are sadists,

I used to keep hens, they had a whole paddock to themselves during the day, and on a night they were shut in a large secure fox proof building,

If I come across fox hunters I will gladly drag them from their horses and let them see how it feels to be terrified.

Is anyone unsure of my stance on the subject?

 

[ianrobbo1]

I'm no expert but Ill have a go at answering some of your questions, :dunno:

Ok here goes having lived in semi rural Essex may pose a problem as not a big hunting area though there are a few hunts about.

I am sceptical that hunting can be justified.

I don't see how the actual "kill" can be classified as anything but cruel!
how do animals feed themselves when wild, dog/wolf packs etc,

I don't see how it can be classed as effective pest control given the effort to kill ratio?
it may not be as efficient as poison, but keeps both nags and dogs exercised

Are foxes as big a threat to farmers as they are claimed to be?
they can be, given the financial constraints some have to work to to make a profit,

Does a fox in a hen house grab his dinner and bugger off or does he off the lot?
nine times out of ten the fox will "off" the lot, my opinion is that the bugger is trying to (1) keep the witnesses quiet, or (2) stopping his "competitors" getting any fresh food,

Do hunt supporters actually support, or are they just trying to protect their jobs?
what would YOU do in their position???

All the dressing up is ostentatious and pointless.
and you think about that every time you "don" leathers to ride the Bird!!oops sorry you don't have one do you?? LOL

Foxhounds seem to be indiscriminate about what they will rip to shreds ie cats
yep,!! same as football hooligans,mobs rule OK!!

Is there no other effective measure of control?
a "few" most such as poisons are indiscriminate, cats could eat it etc!!

A few answers may make me less certain of my objections I am open to reason.:dunno:

well Ive given you my version :dunno:

 

[Scalesy]

I'm no expert but Ill have a go at answering some of your questions, :dunno:

Not bad although not many good reasons to be pro

And my leathers are black therefore faster and I wouldn't be reminding people about leathers if I were you!

 

[Zoffo]

I live in Cumbria and have done all my life. The suggestion that it's only the city folk that are against hunting is bollox. This is the heart of fox hunting country and I think it's pathetic. Not particularly for the cruelty (although it undeniable is) but coz I think the sight of a load of middle class wanabes prancing about the countryside dressed like Butlins SS officers makes me sick.

Lawyer, Estate agents and fox botherers will be first up against the wall come the revolution :shooter:

 

[Jaws]

Whilst I hate harming any living thing, that does not give me the right to dictate to other people.
I can express an opinion, I can try to persuade others to my way of thinking, but I do not have the right to remove someone civil libertys.

And sorry to have to tell you this, a fox is, whether liked or not, vermin.

I seem to be saying this very regularly of late..
Yet another nail driven in the coffin of our personal liberty.

The issue is not whether this or that should be banned.. the issue is that we in the UK are constantly having little bits and bobs taken away from us..

All you lot sitting there now saying but hunting is not / is right, might not be so happy in a few years time when you wake up one morning and realise that you are not free men at all.. its happening NOW people.. and bans on anything ( smoking, fox hunting, driving whilst eating an apple, whatever etc etc ) is the not so thin end of a very large wedge..
I bet many of you who are politicaly aware of what is going on in the world let out a small sigh of relief when Pol Pot popped off in 98, yet we are living in a similar society.. it might not be so violent but strangulation with a velvet rope is just as deadly as good old fashioned hemp !

 

[Wolfie]

for legal reasons i have been told not to answer or lose my rag on discussions like this so i will not.

peace to all creatures. :beer: :beer:

 

[RHINO]

I enjoy watching our local Foxes, i was also brought up on a farm so i have both sides of the argument covered.
My boss would never have allowed a bunch of snotty nosed hunt members to cross his land, if he wanted to control the fox he would simply 'lamp' it at night and pop it off with a rifle.
I would quite happily drag a hunt participant from his mount and give him a kicking ( if it were a woman she cop it verbally), i am horrified at the torture these defenceless animals endure in the chase and it should be outlawed immediately.
There is NO justification to live hunt another animal, they can be shot to control numbers if necessary by the LANDOWNER, who gives anyone else the right to claim the Fox as theirs. The excuse of JOBS, Horses & Dogs needing excercise is bollox, they are bread purely for the hunt so if its banned the breeding of hunt dogs & horses will ebb to a minimum.
As for the clothing, thats all Bollox too, we wear leathers for protection not to flash our status to the village.

It was also tradition to club each other and eat them a few thousand years back, maybe we should re introduce that on hunt days.
It was tradition to do many things but we are more civilised these days i'd like to think.

 

[ianrobbo1]

KILL EM!! KILL EM ALL!!!!




.





now who was it said that???

 

[Wolfie]

but we are more civilised these days i'd like to think.

not true sorry, we (the human race not me) now kill for fun and amusement.

hunter gather killed what he needed and no more.

 

[Cyclops]

Whilst I hate harming any living thing, that does not give me the right to dictate to other people.

Yep let do away with all laws, fooken hell who needs em ?

I can express an opinion, I can try to persuade others to my way of thinking, but I do not have the right to remove someone civil libertys.

Been training to be a do gooder ?

And sorry to have to tell you this, a fox is, whether liked or not, vermin.

And so are Rats but no fooker gets dressed uo like a tarts handbag gets on a horse with a pack of dogs and runs them round until cornerd and then rips them to pieces.

I seem to be saying this very regularly of late..
Yet another nail driven in the coffin of our personal liberty.

Just what exactly is personal liberty ? Is it the right to do whatever you want and fook everybody else ?

The issue is not whether this or that should be banned.. the issue is that we in the UK are constantly having little bits and bobs taken away from us..

All you lot sitting there now saying but hunting is not / is right, might not be so happy in a few years time when you wake up one morning and realise that you are not free men at all.. its happening NOW people.. and bans on anything ( smoking, fox hunting, driving whilst eating an apple, whatever etc etc ) is the not so thin end of a very large wedge..
I bet many of you who are politicaly aware of what is going on in the world let out a small sigh of relief when Pol Pot popped off in 98, yet we are living in a similar society.. it might not be so violent but strangulation with a velvet rope is just as deadly as good old fashioned hemp !

Yeah tell that to the 1,000,000 + people he murdered



WALOB

 

[Wolfie]

KILL EM!! KILL EM ALL!!!!

me???


about the govenment???

can agree to that. :yo: :yo: :yo:

 

[Scalesy]

KILL EM!! KILL EM ALL!!!!




.





now who was it said that???

I think it was the Sellafield Farmer who found his cattle horribly mutated and disfigured into garish lurid colours!

Which is how your leathers came into being!

 

[trophychap]

IMHO

This ban on fox hunting is more about the Labour party than the foxes or those who persue them as they are seen as tory voters anyway!!!

Yes there are other ways to kill foxes for instance a .177 air rifle will do the job not very efficiently but the fox will die a slow lingering death from lead poisoning end result the same but crueller.

Normally when a foxhound average weight 60lbs grabs hold of a fox average weight 14lbs and nearer to a cat than a dog in its bone structure and genetic makeup the fox usually dies instantly from a broken back/neck not much pain there then!

The usually bandied about "they chase them with a pack of out of control hounds till it stops running from exhaustion" is mostly bollox. Most foxes have an extremely well developed sense of self preservation and know where they are on their own territory at all times and often lead the hounds on a merry dance till they get to the part of the fence they know they can get through and the hounds can't.

We once opened an earth near Borth we found the remains of 32 lambs try telling that farmer that they don't affect his livelihood, and I am sure that you will have a happy few hours in casualty trying to explain what a size ten welly is doing protruding from your derriere.

Gassing works quite well but does kill the odd badger as well when they are sharing a sett, poison baits work too but are also very good at killing most raptors Cue Alonabird and Robxx.

There are no grey areas when hunting with dogs the quarry is either dead or not.

Didn,t really want to have to post my views with regard to country pursuits on a motorcycle forum, but there you go I suppose they are as much bollox as everyone elses views - whatever they may be!!!

 

[CbrDavE]

So I make the score so far....

Conservative 2
Labour 4
LibDem 2



Personally I don?t get into arguments about politics and religion,
and err!
tyres and oil

 

[trophychap]

So how do you lubricate your chain then?

 

[scruffygit]

but coz I think the sight of a load of middle class wanabes prancing about the countryside dressed like Butlins SS officers makes me sick. [/color]

Lawyer, Estate agents and fox botherers will be first up against the wall come the revolution :shooter:

Who belongs in the SS, sounds like you would have done well in 1930s Germany.

RAF SNCO, I don't think that makes me middle class.

I make absolutely no excuses, I hunt because I enjoy it and object to anyone who tries to tell me how, what and where I take my enjoyment. Jaws put it more PC in terms of civil liberties but basically its my life and I will live it how I want.

Undoubtedly this will get all the tree huggers up in arms but as this is such a polarised subject, whatever I say will not change your minds, similarly what ever you say will not effect my opinions so I will not bother to read this thread anymore. If you want to bitch about me then go ahead, its your wasted breath.

If I come across fox hunters I will gladly drag them from their horses and let them see how it feels to be terrified.

Is anyone unsure of my stance on the subject?

Derek, you are quite welcome to take what ever action you see fit, that is the beauty of individual freedom and choice, the very thing you seem determined to deprive me of. However, be aware that faced with a person with your intention I will take what ever action I see fit to protect myself. Take it further and, as I have personnally witnessed by 'gentle, law-abiding' antis, slash at horse with knives, throw caltraps on the ground or threaten an 8 yr old girl on her pony ( she was not even involved in the hunt) by grabbing the ponys bridle and making to throw liquid he claimed to be acid over her and in the ponys eyes, then I WILL cause you an immense amount of pain.

Just to throw more fuel on the fire, I am also:

Pro-hanging, Pro-abortion, anti-european federalisation (the original EEC ideal was a good thing), wouldn't piss on the French if they were on fire (as a race, not individually - I've met FCUK, a nice guy) and support the idea of restricted immigration. I have lived in Canada, currently trying to emmigrate there, and have visited the US and Australia several times. They all have strict immigration policies and, in my OPINION, are better for it.

I shall now retire and imagine all the self-righteous, self-appointed guardians of our moral welfare choking on their blustering indignation.

PS. I use a scott-oiler

 

[ianrobbo1]

I think it was the Sellafield Farmer who found his cattle horribly mutated and disfigured into garish lurid colours!

Which is how your leathers came into being!

I can use my leathers on my bike, :bow: even if they are a "little" bright 8l1nd , how do you look "walking" about in yours pretending youve got a bike??? when you go to your local "bike meet" do you wear them then?? get out of your car and spray water on them if its been raining, :}
I ask cos Ive seen "wannabees" do that at Squires before now,LOL :} wondered if your "that type"