• Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )

Nitron Shock

silverfox.xx

quocunque jeceris stabit
In the next couple of months I'm planning to purchase a rear shock for my Bird. Cost is a factor for sure, but unexpected death isn't...;-0))

I'll be watching this thread with interest..... p0pc0rn41

If you're doing a change on the rear shock, you'll also want to sort the front springs..

So the Jaws route of a rebuild is one 'very safe' option and also front springs.

I have a Wilbers adjustable length rear, remote preload bl4hbl4hbl4hbl4h with wilbers 0.90Nmm front springs.. I tried a pair of WP 0.95Nmm (for sale) front springs but without cutting the spacers down the springs are supplied 'overlength' by 17mm, I found these too harsh.

The rear Wilbers spring is rated 20/28 stone which is ideal for firm 'sports' riding or 2 up/2 up luggage. The front at 0.90Nmm seems a good balance with the rear.

So a lot of your choice will be spring weight to suit your loading/use.
 
M

markatnitron

Guest
Nitron Racing Systems

Firstly I would like to introduce myself as the ?Mark? mentioned in this thread from Nitron. Hello!
I would also like to thank one of your members for alerting me to the discussion that has arisen on this forum.

Despite some of the comments, I would like to put anyone who has a Nitron shock at ease. These shocks are built and tested to very high standards that are not representative of their price. Nitron work to extremely low margins. We are engineers that are genuine motorsport enthusiasts, we ride ourselves and appreciate the importance our product plays in transforming fellow riders machines. We obviously understand the absolute importance of safety and quality.

It?s nice to read from many of you how well the shock has performed. I have been told that some posts have been made from commentators that may have a commercial agenda and personal financial interest in remarking on another British manufacturer. We are not in the position where we have to put down other manufacturers products and infact encourage competition, as it makes everyone work harder to produce a better product for us all. Therefore, I would like to keep this post technical and allow everyone to decide on where to spend their money.

As for the reason this has happened, I would like to outline some of the notes from the technical report. I need to be clear that this is the first case of this incident occurring we are aware of and it is not a design fault.
Nitron shocks are all hand build to allow us to match valving and spring rates to each rider, giving a bespoke product. As such none of the components used are welded or press-fitted into place, instead we use solidly machined (from billet alloy) components that screw together allowing for total rebuilds to carried out.
In this instance, the lower gland (the part that has come slightly unscrewed in the photos) has turned a few threads. With the high pressure gas and the large amount of force that is experienced in the shock, the seals have ?walked? out. This then results in a loss of oil shown in the photos.
Now, as for why this has happened? harmonics, vibrations and extreme force can cause threads to unwind if they are not torqued correctly. We have had one other experience with this occurring, on a BMW car where a similar set of forces and vibrations caused a thread to unwind. This was many years ago. Since this happened, our torque settings have be re-engineered and we have not experienced this problem again. However, as these shocks are hand build, an element of human error, spread across thousands of shocks has resulted in this shock not receiving the appropriate torque and after so many miles it has resulted in this failure. Each shock takes days to build once the parts have been machined and I thank many of you for recognising the quality of the product and the longevity of the finish.

As to the motion ratios and force velocity curves that the Bird places on the shocks; it is true that is no greater than that placed on other shocks that we build. However, in this case a certain frequency has been sustained over many miles. As a side note, we build shocks for MotoX, Quadbikes and Paris-Dakar offroad vehicles that suffer far more grief in 1 day that most road bikes will go through in a lifetime. We hold numerous lap records and supply shocks for some of the world?s best race teams and supply large OE Japanese manufacturers.

I hope this helps answer some of the questions you guys have.

I would welcome anyone who has an issue to contact me. I am aware of several posts mentioning other failures of the shock but I do not have any records of this being bought to our attention. Hopefully from our response to this individual failure everyone can see how much we value our customers and how hard we will work to get them back on the road safely; no matter how well used or old the shock is ?we can standby our engineering and design.

Ride safe. @tu*
Mark (mark.tapscott@nitron.co.uk)
 
G

Gromit

Guest
Hi Mark - many thanks for posting this up, and of course for the way in which you and the guys at Nitron dealt with my poorly shock (and apologies on my part for the totally untechnical explanation which was clearly wide of the mark!). I really cannot fault what was done for me, and the care and concern I received. From having the shock picked up from my house, looked at, fixed and sent back in a little over a week is a lesson to other manufacturers.

Wishing you every success. @tu*
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Oldbull

Registered User
Well done Mark, Big up to you for standing by your product and the way you sorted Gromits shock...

speaks volumes for your company, @tu*


Now can we have a big forum discount please and we can tell everyone else how good you are as well ... :-0):-0)
 
N

nagmagwag

Guest
Honest and open reply from Nitron but a little too much gloss. I have no axe to grind re shock type (my bike runs the OE item) and I do not have any commercial connection in any shape or form, but as someone who supplies to the motor industry I know that in a similar situation my customers would be asking me some far more uncomfortable questions such as;
Do you have traceability to who assembled this shock and when?
Do you know how many and which shocks that person assembled on the same day/shift.
Who were those shocks supplied to?
How do you know them not to have the same fault?
Was it really human error (always easy to blame some poor mut)?
Can you be confident that the torque wrench used to assemble that shock was correctly calibrated?
Which other shocks were assembled using that wrench?

I could go on but I won't.

Rather than write a vaguely promotional response about their various customers, their dedication to motorsport, and trying to imply that this shock had done some monster mileage, I would be more convinced if Mark had addressed the sorts of questions above. Hopefully they will have done this internally and all those riding on shocks made by the unnamed individual at the same time can sleep easy.

Nigel
 

silverfox.xx

quocunque jeceris stabit
I think Marks reply was fair, yes he's going to advertise where possible, I can't blame him for that.

This is the first failure I've heard about, and he's put his hands up to that. Maybe Honda should take a leaf out of Nitrons book... alternators, rectifiers, loom problems... ECM problem on 01***** serial numbers.

I would be very surprised if Nitron do not have traceability, however that's his QC system which I suspect is being checked to ascertain potential failure and probable cause and to instigate preventative procedures to prevent re-occurrence. But I cannot find reference on their website to any BS/quality control approval.
 

Tinytim

Registered User
Firstly I would like to introduce myself as the ?Mark? mentioned in this thread from Nitron. Hello!......................... Hopefully from our response to this individual failure everyone can see how much we value our customers and how hard we will work to get them back on the road safely; no matter how well used or old the shock is ?we can standby our engineering and design.

Ride safe. @tu*
Mark (mark.tapscott@nitron.co.uk)

Appreciate another good post in a very readable thread. Nice to get a response from you too Mark @tu* BUT...without being cynical I got to thank nagmagwag also for asking some pertinent questions about Quality Assurance;

.... my customers would be asking me some far more uncomfortable questions such as;
Do you have traceability to who assembled this shock and when?
Do you know how many and which shocks that person assembled on the same day/shift.
Who were those shocks supplied to?
How do you know them not to have the same fault?
Was it really human error (always easy to blame some poor mut)?
Can you be confident that the torque wrench used to assemble that shock was correctly calibrated?
Which other shocks were assembled using that wrench?.............

....I could go on but I won't.....

Nigel
.

Not forgetting of course, can the cause be eliminated to prevent a recurrence?
 
W

willibet

Guest
Glad you took the time to write in Mark, I suspect most vendors woldn't have bothered. That in itself says a lot in my mind. al
 

Tinytim

Registered User
Verbose diarrhoea

Missed this one last night. Fekk me Betty, that's a mouthful :eek: for this time of day

............. to ascertain potential failure and probable cause and to instigate preventative procedures to prevent re-occurrence.

c7u8


Do you mean to find out what's wrong so it wont happen again?


:-:
 

Cougar377

Express elevator to hell
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
If you're doing a change on the rear shock, you'll also want to sort the front springs..

So the Jaws route of a rebuild is one 'very safe' option and also front springs.

I have a Wilbers adjustable length rear, remote preload bl4hbl4hbl4hbl4h with wilbers 0.90Nmm front springs.. I tried a pair of WP 0.95Nmm (for sale) front springs but without cutting the spacers down the springs are supplied 'overlength' by 17mm, I found these too harsh.

The rear Wilbers spring is rated 20/28 stone which is ideal for firm 'sports' riding or 2 up/2 up luggage. The front at 0.90Nmm seems a good balance with the rear.

So a lot of your choice will be spring weight to suit your loading/use.

Done the front with Jaws fork spring kit. @tu*
 
G

Gromit

Guest
The saga continues - my shock was all ready and sent off to me a week last thursday, only it didn't arrive. A big 'oops' in the sense that someone at Nitron mistakenly sent it to my old address in Uxbridge (I did email them when the fault occured saying that we had changed address - the shock was picked up at the correct address).

A neighbour signed for it as the occupier of our old place wasn't in.

Mark at Nitron has spent some time trying to chase this up to no avail so what I'm saying here is if you see a Nitron (Blackbird) shock for sale on ePay, located in Uxbridge, then avoid it because it could be my old one and somewhat 'warm'.

As a result of this, I have a brand new shock winging its way to me now.
 
W

willibet

Guest
For those interested in this thread I am selling a newly overhauled Nitron shock.

It's located in NW London, but I am willing to post.

Cash only please...
 
G

Gromit

Guest
A spangly new Nitron shock arrived at Gromit Towers this afternoon, so hopefully Ye Olde Birde will be up & running again in the next couple of days.

Big up and respec' to Mark and the team at Nitron. :bow:
 
G

greenbriggs9

Guest
Chuffing hell....
I have just parted with ?530 tonight, buying one of these shocks.
Then I happened to fall across this lot????
Lol

I reet enjoyed reading it though.:shooter:
 

grant57

Registered User
Well Tim

Yes

Guilty as charged! early morning auto pilot
I confess to being a bear of "Very Little brain" with Altzheimers setting In!

Grant
 

Toth

Registered User
Fekk me Grant, are you on autopilot ?

Wonder if willibet still has the shock after 3 years?

Plus might just have been a wind up...... missing shock + Uxbridge + NW London cash only and willibet's location 8rfl@8rfl@8rfl@
 
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