Engine firing, engine stops...

[Boggymarsh]

Just plugged the trickle charger in ( a Halfrauds equivalent of the Optimate) and I'm not getting the amber charging light, only the green, which indicates that the battery charging cycle is complete. :dunno: The lights are not the brightest and in sunlight they can hardly be seen and I can't honestly say I looked too closely when I plugged it in earlier this afternoon. Summat not right here either.

 

[4_4_2]

Boggy's meter settings

Position zero. OFF
position 1 AC Volts. what you need to test the alternator (generator) voltages.
position 2 DC volts. what you need to check across the battery/charging circuit.
Position 3 9v battery tester (probably includes a load resistor so 'battery tester for dummies', i.e. bit of a gimmick)
position 4 1.5v battery tester (as note 3 above)
position 5 Ohms, used for testing resistance (and continuity if you know how)
position 6 diode tester. useful for testing in circuit if you know how
position 7 Buzzer test (the lines represent a picture of a buzzer Bill)
Position 8 DC Current test. Leads must be connected in series with the battery for this test, if you dont know how, DO NOT USE, you will blow up the meter!!
position 9 AC current test. see note 8 above!

and most of that is pretty standard on todays range of DVM's chaps....
hope that helps. :-0)

 

[4_4_2]

Just plugged the trickle charger in ( a Halfrauds equivalent of the Optimate) and I'm not getting the amber charging light, only the green, which indicates that the battery charging cycle is complete. :dunno: The lights are not the brightest and in sunlight they can hardly be seen and I can't honestly say I looked too closely when I plugged it in earlier this afternoon. Summat not right here either.

Boggy, if you are having starting/running/battery charging issues and your charger says your battery is fully charged as soon as you plug it in, there is a very good chance that your battery is bolloxed....or fully charged. but probably A.....

 

[andyBeaker]

Have not long arrived home ... on the back of a recovery truck!

Lane three M20, making good progress and suddenly the speedo starts going mental, followed by the rev counter, followed by lights going off and speedo/rev counter dropping to resting position. Engine continues to run and I manage to cross three lanes under power and off at the first available junction, which happened to be my usual exit point from the motorway. Get to top of ramp, engine dies and leaves me with just enough momentum to clear the junction and get to the kerb. Tried to restart but dead as a dodo! Push bike to safe place, grab a breather and try again to restart...zilch! Check fuses, all tickety boo!

Is this the dreaded regulator/rectifier curse or maybe even a generator failure? I have no immediate access to a multi-meter or likewise.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Edit:Forgot to add that this is a 98 carb model.

If everything is original - battery, reg/rec, generator after all that time I would bite the bullet and replace the whole lot -, it's had more than a decent life. I am not a million miles away if you get really desperate

 

[Centaur]

Hi Andy.

You keep trotting this "replace everything" out. Most people can't afford it and anyway it is totally un-necessary. gr0n:

 

[4_4_2]

just a point. Another useful test of a gel battery is just to look at it out of the bike. If the sides are not straight and appeared to have a bulge or rippled effect on any of the sides, chances are it is bolloxed......does not apply to 'wet' filled batteries generally..

 

[Centaur]

I agree 442.

Happened to Gypsy. bent as a banana.....the battery that is! 8rfl@

 

[Centaur]

Boggy, if you are having starting/running/battery charging issues and your charger says your battery is fully charged as soon as you plug it in, there is a very good chance that your battery is bolloxed....or fully charged. but probably A.....

His battery was showing less than 0.5v, 442 so well and truly fooked!

 

[4_4_2]

Happened to Gypsy. bent as a banana.....the battery that is! 8rfl@

We use a lot of Yuasa cells at work for backup supplies of intruder and fire panels, either 7Ah or 15Ah versions. Any more than two or three years old and they are usually shagged...imho. We change hundreds of em every year. And they are usually deformed when we change them...:-0)

 

[Boggymarsh]

Well things are looking good.

The new battery arrived yesterday and after adding the electrolyte I had a reading of 12.7v across the terminals. I fitted the battery to the bike and immediately got the familiar beep from the immobiliser and a time on the digital clock. The bike started on the button and at 3000rpm I got a reading of between 13.2v & 13.4v. On increasing the revs to 4000rpm it increased to between 13.4v & 13.6v. Engine switched off and was running for no more than 45 seconds. I removed the reg/rec and replaced with one I had sourced off from a braker (finned type off a 98 carbed 'bird). Bike started on the button and at 3000rpm I got a reading of 14.2v and then at 5000rpm a reading of 14.5v. The voltage dropped a little when I put the lights on. There was not as much variation in the readings this time and things looked pretty stable.

I'm now at work and haven't been out on a road test but to me all sounds promising. The big question is... Is it fixed?

Bill, I will call you at some point tomorrow, if that's ok, so that we can discuss the leakage test you talked about.

 

[Centaur]

Brilliant, Boggy. Looks good.

For anyone interested a leakage test is to see what, if any, current is being drawn from the battery with the ignition switched off. A bike without an alarm should have zero leakage or as near as damn. Datatool etc draw a continual small current to power the alarm while the bike is switched off. In my experience if you ride your bike regularly, say weekly, this would not cause a problem with a healthy battery. A battery in poor condition may have a problem though and this is why people use Optimate etc. My personal belief is that the constant small discharge/small charge fooks the battery in the long term. How much leakage would one expect? A bike I bought with an old Datatool alarm was drawing 25ma. Not a lot? That's an amp every 40 hours and with a motorbike battery typically 10A hours it wouldn't be too many days before the battery would not start the bike without bump starting. So off it came! So we will be checking that leakage is not a problem to Boggy's new battery. :-0) How do we check? Ignition OFF. Disconnect the earth from the battery and put a meter set to say one amp DC current, NOT VOLTAGE, between the earth lead and the negative on the battery. The positive meter lead (red) should be to the earth lead on the chassis and the black lead to the battery negative. DO NOT SWITCH THE IGNITION ON WHILE YOU ARE DOING THIS CHECK. Be aware you may have to reset your alarm after disconnecting the battery.

 

[4_4_2]

All that sounds really healthy to me now Boggy...especially the readings with the newer Reg Rec... I reckon you will have no issues now as long as you ride the thing regularly...

The extremely low reading across your old battery indicates cell damage internally, prolonged running of your bike with that battery on would probably take out your reg rec anyway eventually as it would have been working too hard.

Glad you got it sorted eventually...

 

[andyBeaker]

You keep trotting this "replace everything" out. Most people can't afford it and anyway it is totally un-necessary. gr0n:

For a 98 bike I reckon that is sound advice of all parts are original.

I stand by the 'change everything' if in doubt mantra,the logic is that if any part of the system has failed it will likely have taken one or two of the three components out along the way.

The only part that MAY be excluded is the battery as they don't last for ever. But they do last a hell of as long tome if the bike is used regularly.

As for the cost thing, replacing all three bits may prove to be the most economical fix in the long run. Amazing how many threads in this section are repeat electrical failures.

As for cost - running a Bird is not that bad cost wise (brake pads excepted) but you have to expect the odd big bill - it is a serious bit of kit that takes abuse well but ain't bulletproof. Haven't looked recently but c?250k to repalce the complete charging system....?

 

[Boggymarsh]

A quarter of a million quid for the charging system!

What's it made of cos if it's that valuable my bike is off the drive immediately as I don't want no country cousin having it!

 

[Centaur]

Andy is a banker, Boggy.

He is used to having k after everything! Wages, expenses etc.


So, under Andy's theory, if we have a problem with some bankers we should replace them all! 8rfl@ He reckons it's cheaper in the long run.

 

[andyBeaker]

Er, I am taking the right to reply to the last two comments above.

Whoops.

and buggger.

8rfl@

PS I'm still right though;-0))

 

[Centaur]

Perhaps in theory. Andy.

However, just as in banking, we have ways to ferret out the guilty and leave the innocent in place. 8rfl@