Charging issue

[bishbosh]

The only sure test is voltage between yellow wires with the plug undone from reg/rec. Any AC voltage means the alternator is shorting to earth. A bulb designed to use 12v DC will not light up with low AC voltage, BB. Do you not trust your meter?

Ha, yeah I trust my meter, just a few people on here don't trust anyone's meter!!

The bulb thing was just so I can test for volts with a long reach and not have to balance the meter somewhere like when testing the horn.

Was thinking that if I remove the cover and with stator still in place can I pass a decent current (12v dc) down the yellow pins and test for circuit from the body of the stator/cover, that way if I can find where the insulation is damaged and touching the body I can fix and retest - or does the nature of the short only work with AC.

Just throwing out ideas really.

 

[Jaws]

That is actually quite a good idea BB
However, from experience the shorts are usually pretty buried :xm

Where did the coils come from and how old are they ?

 

[bishbosh]

That is actually quite a good idea BB
However, from experience the shorts are usually pretty buried :xm

Where did the coils come from and how old are they ?

New, from you about a week or two ago !!

 

[Jaws]

Well unless you have a tardis mate, it must be over a year old cos I retired on November 10th last year !!!

If you bought it from Jaws though, just return it and a replacement will be sent out..
I would ring Karen first and explain all that has happened

It is VERY rare but it could well have been duff from new

 

[bishbosh]

Well unless you have a tardis mate, it must be over a year old cos I retired on November 10th last year !!!

If you bought it from Jaws though, just return it and a replacement will be sent out..
I would ring Karen first and explain all that has happened

It is VERY rare but it could well have been duff from new

Ha, yeah meant JAWS, sorry wasn't really online 12 months ago and see you go, but glad you still put in the time on here.

There was another thread recently about JAWS having a duff RegRec, is it worth sending that back at the same time to be tested too.

I will try the dc test, remove and and take photos and forward/contact Karen as suggested.

Thanks.

 

[Centaur]

Ha, yeah meant JAWS, sorry wasn't really online 12 months ago and see you go, but glad you still put in the time on here.

There was another thread recently about JAWS having a duff RegRec, is it worth sending that back at the same time to be tested too.

I will try the dc test, remove and and take photos and forward/contact Karen as suggested.

Thanks.

If you are going to return it BB I would not mess about using 12v to test for a short to earth. Just phone Karen at Jaws and tell her it appears duff from fitting and send it back. 12V from your bike battery through a copper coil to earth will generate a high current and heat and could melt the insulation. Just send it back so Karen can return it to the manufacturers. Don't risk causing more damage than was there when you got it.

 

[bishbosh]

I've remove the stator ready to send back to Electrex direct as arranged with Karen.

Here are some photos which show no bangs or scratches so if insulation has broken down then not from my handling - that's by the by.

The last pic is interesting, I have used my old stator to creat a circuit between battery, multimeter, connector pin, stator body and back to battery. Now if the wires are properly insulated then there should be no voltage, but by using a fully charged new 12v battery you can see there is some charge and hence the insulation has broken down. There is no connectivity between pin and body when using multimeter diode test as I guess the small charge used is not enough to do this test and hence why Jaws recommended AC frame earth test earlier.

There is potential to do this static test prior to fitting, but I will make a note to send to Electrex to see if this is safe or as Centaur said it may damage the insulation - we'll see.


We'll see.

 

[Jaws]

Umm.. that meter is showing a dead short mate !!

 

[bishbosh]

Umm.. that meter is showing a dead short mate !!

What's that? This is my old stator btw.

 

[Jaws]

Well it is exactly what I would expect to see on a faulty coil.

If you touch the probes together what reading do you get ? I am guessing the same ?

 

[bishbosh]

Well it is exactly what I would expect to see on a faulty coil.

If you touch the probes together what reading do you get ? I am guessing the same ?

Well the meter is on DC reading, but yes if I switch it to Diode and touch the probes I usually get that, also got that when touching the probe to each of the pairs of pins in the connector, but earlier in the thread I was told not to worry about resistance readings even though it's one of the tests in the Haynes manual.

On a good stator, what reading would you expect for this DC circuit?

 

[Jaws]

OK..
I think you are muddling up quite a few different bits of info.

You cannot measure the resistance of a coil accurately without very specialised equipment so the figures in Haynes etc ate no use

You CAN however check to see if there is a leak between the body of the coils and the coils.
That measurement should be open circuit

What confuses most folk is..

Open circuit is high resistance
Short circuit is low resistance

Peeps look at the meter, read something like .003 and think that is open circuit as in no resistance, but of course open circuit would give a reading of all zeros. Hence so much confusion

Sooo.. With the meter set on say 200 Ohms, one probe on any of the yellow wires and the other on the metal work of the coils, what is the meter reading ?
If all zeros then that is fine. If anything else, it is duff

If all zeros change the meter range to 200K and recheck
If still all zeros then the test is passed

Checking between the yellow wires with resistance will only show there is a path or not. Ordinary multi meters are simply not accurate enough to check the coil value

 

[Jaws]

Just had a look at your meter..

Do not use the diode test in this instance BishBosh
That is usually a 2K setting and sticks a voltage up the probes to forward bias a diode
It will do not real harm but may deliver weird readings

 

[bishbosh]

Will do that later, haven't posted stator off yet - ta. @tu*

 

[Centaur]

Copied from Jaws, Bishbosh.

Sooo.. With the meter set on say 200 Ohms, one probe on any of the yellow wires and the other on the metal work of the coils, what is the meter reading ?
If all zeros then that is fine. If anything else, it is duff

If all zeros change the meter range to 200K and recheck
If still all zeros then the test is passed


Stop buggering about with 12v battery, BB. :-0) It only causes complications and proves nothing.

Your meter has it's own internal battery to check resistance and if you do as Jaws says above it will prove or disprove a short from the coils to earth.

It is safe to try this on the stator you are returning before you send it back. If it shows NO short to the body of the stator then we have a whole new ball game!

 

[bishbosh]

...

Sooo.. With the meter set on say 200 Ohms, one probe on any of the yellow wires and the other on the metal work of the coils, what is the meter reading ?
If all zeros then that is fine. If anything else, it is duff

If all zeros change the meter range to 200K and recheck
If still all zeros then the test is passed

...

With meter set to 200 Ohms I turn it on and it reads "1" on LHS.
Touch the probes together and get reading of "0.3"

Touch the probe to the stator body and each of the yellow wires and still reads "1" on LHS.

 

[Jaws]

Sounds like the one is the default .. So nothing to read ?
This is so difficult trying to do it remotely !

 

[bishbosh]

Sounds like the one is the default .. So nothing to read ?
This is so difficult trying to do it remotely !

Yeah I know.

Could the zeros that Jaws referimg was to be the same as my meter showing "1".

 

[Centaur]

Set to 200 ohms.

What does the meter show with the probes apart and then with the probes together.


1 Probes apart =

2 Probes together =

 

[bishbosh]

1 Probes apart = "1"

2 Probes together = 0.3