Smoking in Pubs...

[ianrobbo1]

Originally posted by frenchuk
DB, thing is, same could be said about bikers since we have a higher fatality rate than average - it's all about doing what you like doing and assuming the consequences of it init - and before anyone says that they don't decide to do passive smoking, well they decide to go to pubs where they know they're gonna be smokers in pubs, and besides many people decide to live in big polluted cities, take the tube which is a renowned hazard etc... oh, and drink alcohol, and many other stuff I can't think of but that are hazardous as well - now, gonna have a gitanes with another beer!:beer:

cafe's / restarants are these places we take our children to so we can allow someone to kill them with smoke, or do we leave them outside ''to protect them'' while we enjoy the atmosphere inside,!!
how many of these ''city dwellers'' have a choise on what mode of transport they are forced to use to get to there crappy jobs,!! are they not aware of these factors,?? OH !! yes its called suberbia, thats where the poor shmucks get as far away from the shit in the citys as possible, yet near enough to get there to work.
not everyone can live in the countryside, there aint that much of it,!!
:dunno:

 

[fat bert]

and what about~~~

The 7 pence in the ? that you'll ALL have to pay in additional income tax if we all stop smoking?

You non-smokers should be encouraging us - we keep your taxes down

LOL

 

[ianrobbo1]

and dont forget the savings on NHS services, because less smoking related illnesses would be using up the resorces that we are currently spending the 7pence in the pound and more on,:f

 

[frenchuk]

Ian, I think you had a valid point in your previous post, but one more time, proper efficient extraction is the answer (in tube as well but now I'm just dreaming!) - but NHS? treating people? Is that something new? Yes I'm taking the piss but then again the NHS has taken the piss enough with me for it to be only fair for me to take the piss out of them, NHS is just a running joke, full of very dedicated people totally underfunded - and also of totally incompetent dangerous cretins who enjoy the power of their white jacketc7u8 :xm

 

[fat bert]

Sorry Slobbo~~

the figures I quoted were net of NHS savings

Source FT.com

 

[fat bert]

and another thing~~~~

in the UK the Government spend more money on Social Security FRAUD that it costs to run the entire HNS

Yet do we bleat on about the Dole-Fiddlers et sl?

Err..as a matter of fact - YES!!

Victor Meldrew - eat ya heart out

 

[Pugwash]

Roy Castle will be tap-dancing in his grave. c7u8

 

[R2B2]

It's quite funny to see the smokers, who are in the minority btw, rush to the defensive on this one!! First day of legislation in Ireland has them panicking already, lol.

Now, - let me see if I've got this right... If the (majority) non-smoker doesn't want to be subject to the risk and smell of the (minority) smokers smoke, in a public place, he/she should go outside?? Even though they are not the cause of the contamination, right?

And the (minority) smoker who is responsible for said smoke should remain inside, right??

Errr...WRONG!!

With any stretch of the imagination, that cannot possibly be reasonable, lol!! That's like saying if somebody with chickenpox comes into the bar - everyone else should wait outside till he's finished and left! That would be absurd and people, quite rightly, wouldn't tolerate it, including the smokers!

So why should it be different for smokers, the non-smokers would argue. What would make them the special case that allows exemption from their reasonable responsibility to others, they might ask. And in all fairness they'd be right, so surely, the responsibility lies at the door of the polluter to go outside.... doesn't it???

Forget the extraction, it won't cover the problem adequately, it's a weak point, and it aint gonna happen anyway. The drink analagy isn't relevant cos drinking doesn't affect the well being of another person in the same enclosed place. Chosing to ride a bike doesn't impose riding on other people, blah blah blah.

In all probability, the legislation will come here too. People would soon get used to it. They did on trains, planes, cinemas, buses, shopping malls etc. The numbers didn't fall when smoking was stopped in these.

 

[ianrobbo1]

the smoking lobby

cant feel they have any case to defend, as to date ONLY 35 people have bothered to vote, and the majority support the banning of tobbacco products being smoked publicly.
It seems Sir Walter Raleigh has a lot to answer for, he may have been responsible for building the Ark Royal,
but he ballsed it up when he came home from Virginia in 1589, and brought tobbacco with him,:bang:
even the Queen bunged him in ''T'' Tower of london.
still at least he didnt bring chewing gum back as well,!!

 

[DB on CBR1100XX]

Robbo.............

.............did you read my post ?

Smokers are net contributors to the 'Nash' There will be no saving, there will be an increase in taxation to cover the shortfall in revenue to pay for all the ailments of the non smoking unwell.

Lung cancer is 100% fatal ie. relatively low cost to treat - there isn't any bar palliative. To address Frenchies point: motorcyclists may well be at a higher risk but relatively few die rather than spend lots of time in orthopaedic wards, ITU, Physio and rehab at high cost: He may well reflect on his own experience in this matter.


Smokers' diseases rarely last this long..................

 

[ianrobbo1]

DB m8 you crack me up,!!

So what your saying is, ''a large persentage of the countrys population must slowly and surly kill themselves to pay for the aillments of the larger{and growing} majority,

and its ''OK'' to die quickly but not over a period of time, so it dosn't cost as much,!!!:bang:

and in say 10/20 or whatever years time when the smokers have all but died off, the non smokers will all drop dead as well cos there wont be enough smokers left to pay the bills,

by the same token, ''drugs'', its okay to take drugs cos they kill quicker and if they taxed them, the druggies could support the great unwashed just the same as smokers do now,!!

I'm not supporting a Total ban, just in PUBLIC areas similar to Ireland,

and as for the ''ventilation'' lobby,:} and what greasy spoon is going to be able to afford to install and run a system capable of extracting smoke from the person sitting next to you, on the profit margins some run on,!!!:bang:

look at roundy roundy, sorry Formula 1 racing, at one time all the teams were sponsered by cig companys, then the ads were banned in the majority of countrys, the same race teams are still going though, same as the NHS will, the twats in charge will find something else to tax,

 

[fat bert]

DB~~~~~point of order..................

Lung cancer is 100% fatal

So is heart disease and all forms of cancer, obesity, Parkinsons, old age etc etc

Pray explain what 50% fatal means?

State the bleeding obvious

As for Smokers being the minority - figures please?

Just occured to me - if smokers are in the minority we shouldn't be persecuted - that prejudice

Perhaps we could all start the Black Smoking Traffic Wardens Association?

Then we could apply for European and Lottery Funding to support our over-taxed habit?

Consider the figures though

20 x John Player ciggies in Turkey cost ?1.20 packet [and that includes the cost of shipping them from Nottingham

20 x John Player ciggies in UK cost ?4.60

It's not difficult to work out that's ?3.40 tax - straight into the Downing Street Coffers

So for an average person smoking 20 a day - that's ?1241 extra tax per year and over 20 years [assuming you survive lung cancer that long] equates to best part of ?25K

So...if we assume that the ratio of smokers to non smokers is say 3:1 - that means that if everyone stopped smoking overnight [tried that but the bed caught fire] every one - smoker or not would have to cough up [!!] an extra ?413.67 per year in tax

You prepared to pay that?

NHS savings I hear you all bleat on???

Bollox - they'd just waste the money - same as they do now!!

Bugger - that's more than cost of 3 new Blackbirds

Nicotine patch anyone?

 

[Samster]

Nicotine patches - they are awesome.

I'm on the 52mg jobbies and they make me dream like a madman.

Giving up's a piece of piss with these babies attached to ones self.

One week today without roll-ups! Congratulations Samster!

And don't I look better for it.........LOL

 

[ianrobbo1]

EEEEEKKK,!!!!!



never mind

 

[Chunky Monkey]

Re: Well !!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Biker Babe
IMHO I think what there doing in Ireland is wrong, because what it amounts too is there taking away peoples freedom of choice !!!!!

I don't drink very much, {I leave that to steve} but how would those of you who do drink feel if it was made law that you could only drink indoors !!! ok, ok, I know it will probably never happen, but just say it did how would you feel then?

Bring back the 60's..................:} free speech, love etc etc


Right with that said I'm off, gonna have a

fag and a nice cup of coffee !!!

certain towns have banned drinking in public places outside(ie, town centres etc)...it`s already happening

 

[fat bert]

Samster - you daft twat~~~!

Nicontine patches...................

You supposed to SMOKE them - not stick them on ya forehead!!!!

 

[frenchuk]

Sam well done mate! I just give up on the argument since it just doesn't sink in. You make extraction compulsory, just like many other health and safety and hygien regulations - AND smoking / non-smoking areas, sorted, it must be only the 5th time I say it in this thread, but there is always a brigade out there to try and 'punish' people for their sins instead of trying to find a workable solution. Trains, tubes planes etc are different places all together - safety and all, and pubs and restaurants are places primarely designed to enjoy yourself and relax, unlike means of transportations that have enclosed tight spaces anyway. But I guess, America here we come, what next is the PC brigade gonna invent?
As for protecting the health of the work force at the work place? Stress is a determining factor in a LOT of serious illnesses, so they're going to try and eradicate stress at work, tell people to not eat junk food on their lunch brake or eat sweets during their work, have people who stand up and walk for their work sit down every 1/2 hr, eradicate air-conditioning... w;;v c7u8 :xm

 

[tootyfluti]

I have a fair few relatives in Ireland and the majority of them are smokers and I have to say they were in favour of the ban. They were of the opinion that they would smoke less and save small amounts of money by being forced not to smoke in pubs, cafes etc, etc.
This is a really controversial subject and until there is legislation in place people still have the right to choose. But a certain amount of common sense must be present as well. If you were in a restaurant and there kids eating at the nearby table would you light up? I`d hope that most smokers would say they wouldn`t.
quite a lot of my friends smoke but most of them are decent enough to ask if I mind or at least move so the smoke blows away from me. But it is a pain in the arse having to have a shower when you get back fom the pub and sling your clothes in the wash that night cos by morning it will have stunk the house out.
FUK smoke extractors are a good idea but most small businesses would probably have to foot the bill by upping their prices, and I can`t really see the government subsidising it somehow.

 

[ianrobbo1]

and for the benefit

of the Extractor fans on here,:bang: THE COST OF PERCHASE AND RUNNING an extraction system is prohibative, that means small cafes and restarants [wont] be able to AFFORD to install or run them, yes I concede it is ONE answer but the downs far outweigh the up's,
another reason for not installing extractor fans beside the purchase price,''between ?300 + ?1500 for a small cafe'' is the Noise, they are ALL noisey to a greater or lesser degree, these small business'es simply wont be able to afford ''quite'' systems:dunno:


and I dont care if I've sellt me words rong Lumpy,:f quote that,!!:f

 

[frenchuk]

Re: and for the benefit

Ian, 1/ they are not all noisy, fact 2/ of course they cost money (although second hand ones do exist and are cheaper), but as said before, so does a stainless steel professional kitchen up to heath and safety and hygien standards, pro. refrigerating system, pro. cooking equipment, extinguishers, chairs and tables for the comfort od patrons, etc...
if restaurant/pub/caf/bar owners don't want to spend money for the comfort of their customers why should customers want to spend money in their place?