gypsy
MAN on the PAN
At last a balanced and impartial news report http://www.glossynews.com/artman/publish/g20-riots-murder-plot-1590.shtml
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Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )
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crackle0
Guest
You will have to excuse my ignorance Trig....................but
I thought SPG was that hamster from the young ones!:dunno:
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morphgarth
Guest
Well done Neil!!
SPG the hamster was named after SPG (special patrol group), part of the Met police.
rovinghawk
Registered User
Information update
The post-mortem found that he died of abdominal haemorraging (sp?)
My opinion is that the investigation needs to turn from battery to manslaughter. Again, I point out that none of the other police did anything when they saw a man attacked in front of them and killed by another policeman; they just carried on walking.
RH
The post-mortem found that he died of abdominal haemorraging (sp?)
My opinion is that the investigation needs to turn from battery to manslaughter. Again, I point out that none of the other police did anything when they saw a man attacked in front of them and killed by another policeman; they just carried on walking.
RH
ericonblackbird
Registered User
rovinghawk
Registered User
There is a possibility that he killed the guy, perhaps? I'd agree that 'appears' to be more than necessary. Err.........necessary for what, exactly? He wasn't doing anything to provoke any form of attack.
Please tell me ANYTHING that would have justified what he did. Anything. Anything at all.
Quite right- it'd be a better world if people didn't photograph police killing protesters (allegedly, potentially, etc).
Please suggest how he could NOT be in the wrong. I'd suggest there's no 'if' about it.
No, he deserves to be treated as a member of society sworn & paid to uphold the law & prevent acts like this. He has additional rights, ergo he has additional responsibilites.
And the Met has a history of trying to prevent them investigating police killings (please ask me to back that statement up)
RH
Before we have the man hung drawn & quartered remember a couple of years back a Police officer allegedly thumping a girl outside a nightclub [in Sheffield I believe]? The general public had the man guilty before knowing the facts, then they made known the build up to the incident & how the girl was kicking & biting the officers, the Police officer was absolved of blame. It may well be that this officer has gone over the top & been a complete thug in which case he is entitled to a fair trial as is everymans right. I don't think it makes a Police officers job any easier with the General public finding them guilty on a small clip of video
Murt
Letch
RH..
I agree with your comments.
But..
I was not at the scene, did not see what went on in the moments prior to the 'alleged' assault, and having been in similar circumstances myself some time ago, ( mentioned I think in previous posts) Do not wish to go further than the way I did comment.
Lets let the IPCC do their job and if the bobby is guilty, he will pay for his actions.
Whilst on the subject of people being beaten...
Lets spare a thought for this young man.. He was armed but did not draw his weapon, But if he had... would he have been castigated for it instead of being killed?
Police-officer-dies
Murt.
I agree with your comments.
But..
I was not at the scene, did not see what went on in the moments prior to the 'alleged' assault, and having been in similar circumstances myself some time ago, ( mentioned I think in previous posts) Do not wish to go further than the way I did comment.
Lets let the IPCC do their job and if the bobby is guilty, he will pay for his actions.
Whilst on the subject of people being beaten...
Lets spare a thought for this young man.. He was armed but did not draw his weapon, But if he had... would he have been castigated for it instead of being killed?
Police-officer-dies
Murt.
Murt
Letch
Just to comment on those two above.....
A Constable is .... A Member of the public, locally appointed, employed to uphold the law, without fear of favour, pride or prejudice, within the rules and of the land... He has extra responsibilities, but no extra rights.
I agree... if he has done wrong, he will be punished, but he is no superman, he is a human being, just like you and me, if it was a moment of rage, it should not have happened, if it was planned, he must justify his actions, Just think... who on here has not snapped at some point after minutes of provocation, if not hours. It is he who must live with that if he did wrong. Training or no training!
Secondly... I agree with you about the Mets 'assistance', or lack of it previously.. But this time they will be going out of their way to help the IPCC, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if most senior officers will be asking what they want putting in reports and statements to help them so that they come out cleaner than clean!
A giant hand washing exercise will be taking place right now. No matter what the outcome of the investigation. And I'm not saying that the Police should 'protect' officers, just support them when things go wrong (In any way).
And just a personal comment...
I would not be surprised if most of the Met TSG put in a request to be taken off the group. That will be interesting next time a 'lawful protest' takes place in a London.
Murt.
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brian willetts
Guest
Fook me, he's on film asulting someone unprovoked whilest being paid to uphold the law. What more do we need?? the police man to sing about it, have a flashing fooking becan???
Not all police are bad but this ones a complete b****rd, caused his death or not he sould at least be done for asult.
Ask yourself this police or not, if one of your family was in town on a saturday night would you want plod to be professional or loose it and twat them???
If you are police on here and are making an excuse for this thug, then you should go back to basics and question yourself.
Not all police are bad but this ones a complete b****rd, caused his death or not he sould at least be done for asult.
Ask yourself this police or not, if one of your family was in town on a saturday night would you want plod to be professional or loose it and twat them???
If you are police on here and are making an excuse for this thug, then you should go back to basics and question yourself.
Murt
Letch
Brian..
I'm NOT sticking up for anyone. I'm simply saying, none of us were at the scene.
Lets let the experts deal with the enquiry and not hang the bloke before all the facts are scrutinised.
As for your comment about my Family in town on a Saturday night, and Plod losing it and 'twatting' them.
If any of my children (Or Family) were in town and did get into that situation, I would be just as annoyed with THEM for getting into the situation in the first place!
If you read my entry again you will see that at no time do I 'stick up' for the police officer. In fact I say that if he has done wrong he should be punished.
What are your feeling about the other police officer who has just died from his injuries whilst trying to arrest an 'alleged' robber, was it just part of the job, or should he have fought back more as he was armed, ( Shot the bloke, Tazered him Etc??)
Just interested.
Murt.
I'm NOT sticking up for anyone. I'm simply saying, none of us were at the scene.
Lets let the experts deal with the enquiry and not hang the bloke before all the facts are scrutinised.
As for your comment about my Family in town on a Saturday night, and Plod losing it and 'twatting' them.
If any of my children (Or Family) were in town and did get into that situation, I would be just as annoyed with THEM for getting into the situation in the first place!
If you read my entry again you will see that at no time do I 'stick up' for the police officer. In fact I say that if he has done wrong he should be punished.
What are your feeling about the other police officer who has just died from his injuries whilst trying to arrest an 'alleged' robber, was it just part of the job, or should he have fought back more as he was armed, ( Shot the bloke, Tazered him Etc??)
Just interested.
Murt.
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brian willetts
Guest
Not wanting to offend but i hate the shit about us and them, and when i have read some coments saying that i just think grow up. But the replies i have read seams to me that plod have that attitude, because it was one of them there is all this!!!
As for the robber let the b*****d swing.
I am not anti police, the poor sod was doing a job, paying his rent and most likley suporting his family like the rest of us and dont deserve any harm at all.
but with this
1) He was hit with his hands in his pockets from behind
2) Would the rest of the offices just let this go if it was not plod (why did they not even question this at the time?or do they turn a blind eye when its one of there mates)
I have had a customer facing job and have been threatened, my tools thrown out the house on the road and had (mainly woman) scream in my face. with no training i have never struck back or even argued. The only argument here is what happened before hand, my argument is that he let it get to him and struck out.
I have known instances at work when supervising in a workshop when a prisoner has been belligerent, then when leaving the workshop has deliberately held back then slow timed walking back to the wing, on these occasions the prisoner has been given a helping hand ie encouraged to move more quickly in much the same way as the officer was moving that guy along. The police have a job to do & in the video it looked to me like the guy was being deliberately obstructive so he was being encouraged [maybe too vigorously] to move faster, don't forget that once the demonstration was over then the police have hours of paperwork to complete, wouldn't you be a bit pissed off if you had that to look forward to and someone was slow timing in front of you? I am not justifying the intensity of the Officers actions I am just supplying a plausible explanation. Several years ago when I had just left school the mother of one of my friends took up with another man & my mates dad confronted him in the street, the other bloke punched my mates dad who fell to the ground, later that night he died of a heart attack whilst in hospital, the other guy got charged with manslaughter but that charge was then reduced to assault as my mate's dad had an underlying medical condition, if that guy was fit & healthy would he have died as a result of the [alleged] assault? if he did have a medical condition then he should have had more sense than to antagonise a group of Police officers
rovinghawk
Registered User
I accept all of that...
The right to arrest people, perhaps? (In the case of two who tried to arrest me one evening, the ability to do so for no reason)
Please suggest any justification whatsoever for his actions- I contend that no such justification is possible.
Damn right- he's a bullying thug.
That's up for debate at the moment
I don't hit people from behind. I presume you're the same.
Here we agree.
The justification from the Met spokesman was that this sort of thing was inevitable. Quite disappointing, really.
But if we attack someone in front of large numbers of police we tend to get arrested on the spot. In his case it appears to be 'Fred's hitting protesters again (yawn)'
Such a pity the victim can't do the same.
He was trained to do that???
Damn decent of them. Is it because they realise how much damage they did to their credibility & public support when they blocked the IPCC last time?
A whitewash, so to speak?
Like shutting a stable door?
They either support the guy or wash their hands of him- they can't really do both. Are you saying they're doing the first but should do the second?
A motto for consideration: Loyalty above everything. Except honour.
Or they could just agree to obey the same set of laws they're paid to uphold. Just a thought.
RH
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rovinghawk
Registered User
Hit from behind? The sign of a real tough guy.
Maybe? MAYBE?
Yes- so pissed off I'd assault someone from behind, leading to their death. Or maybe not.
Plausible is not the same as acceptable.
He probably thought they were too law-abiding to assault him. He probably thought he wasn't doing enough to justify his death.
RH
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firebladetrev
Guest
When i applied to join the police Force back in the early 80's one of the qualitys of a person they wanted was "To remain calm under extreme provocation" is this not the case nowadays? People on here keep saying the Police have a difficult job and yes i agree with them but they know exactly what to expect before they join up. Like the Police no go areas in places like Birmingham, whats that all about then. You signed on the dotted line get in there and do the job or is it to tough for you and its easier to pick on protestors that swear at you and taunt you. I was in the RN during the Flaklands and when i joined up in 1978 i did not even think that one day we might go to war but i had no choice you do as you are told. And what about all the poor uk kid soldiers in place like Iraq and Afghanistan they are at war for fooks sake but shoot someone while not following the protocol and you are on a manslaughter charge. So the same should count here accept it.
Pushed, not hit
Yes maybe, it's not for me to determine how hard he was pushedhave you ever seen footballers diving in the penalty area? they make it look like they've been battered with a sledge hammer when they weren't even touched?
If a prisoner is slow timing & therefore holding up the prison regime we have the right to move them along by giving them a firm push in the back or shoulders, I would imagine it is much the same for the Police
That Officer & many like him have quite possibly done the same thing several times without harming anyone
He was possibly goading the Police, none of us know what led up to the event [which will come out at the trial] a possibility is that he was told not to go in the area & when he did was told to move along quickly but did the reverse & so was moved along by the Officer. All this is just speculation as without all the facts all we can do is speculate but without the facts I am not going to say that anybody is guilty
rovinghawk
Registered User
So that makes it ok to knock him to the ground from behind?
I can help there- he was pushed hard enough that the medical examiner identified it as the primary cause of death.
This one looked like the kidney area to me. btw- this guy wasn't a prisoner.
I'm not debating his other bullying, just the one where the victim died.
Which qualifies for being knocked down?
It doesn't matter- anything earlier should have been dealt with earlier, unless you think revenge is a dish acceptable served cold.
If true, this still doesn't justify the attack.
If you watch the video, you'll notice he wasn't moved along, he was knocked to the ground; this would have prevented him from moving along (as would his death shortly afterwards)
Absolutely right- I contend that the thug in question should stand trial based on the evidence of the video.
If found guilty of manslaughter, what happens to all the other police who watched the killing and did nothing about it?
RH