Vibration

[DonJohn]

Wedge, you adjusted the gear mesh ... and evidently OK!. I was referring in my last post, to the balancer weights being in the correct position at TDC 1/4, which adjusting the mesh will not alter.
Methinks a known OK comparison bike run on the stand is the next way to go. Must be plenty of folk willing to do that???..... Come to the Pyrenees!

 

[wedge]

I know its years old but it would appear that vibration has been a problem for others in the past, see issue one, article about Vibration:

http://members.tripod.com/a_de_graaf/newsletter.htm

 

[Fodder]

How did you get on Bruce?

 

[birdinflight]

We have just come back from

a 10 day trip to the Pyrenees!!!!

I am sure that Don will appreciate that when you do the twistys, vibrations are disguised totally due to the up and down of the revs.

We found on the longer straight roads that we had to keep the revs out of the 4-5rpm range. On motorways it had to be 100mph to just get it into the 5-6rpm.

Our vibes were bad, but not as horrendous as we were expecting. when we get round to looking for another Bird, we are just going to ride as many different ones until we find one that doesn't.

We have tried everything to get rid of the vibes, balancer shafts, CCt, and on the previous bird the dealer reseated the engine and did loads of stuff......................he did................as we saw him do alot of it!!!!!!!

Its disappointing that a such wonderful bike can be so uncomfortable.

Jaws said that his bike doesn't vibrate?????? Sorry Jaws, but it does.......remember I sat on the back of it!!!!!! How could I forget! It does vibrate its just that you don't notice it.

Its not even a nice vibration! Its high frequency which can cause alot of pain. My heels go to sleep after aching all through my ankle bones. We get numb bums and we have a custom seat with gel inserts!!

Now my bike vibrates..........but thats in your face V twin vibes..........really quite nice!!!!!!! :blush:

 

[Bruce H]

They're keeping her in. Gonna fit a new CCT asap. They said that before they deal with the balancer shafts and 'go where angels fear to tread' they will do the CCT first.
Apparently when they ran it up in the stand and had a good listen, at the time of vibration, they could detect some extra noise from the cam chain area.

I am getting vibes from 3500 to 5500 in any gear now. Not horrible vibes but annoying.

Should be fitted Saturday, will keep you posted.

 

[DonJohn]

Wedge:
In an earlier post (which I cannot find) said that he turned a balancer shaft, or balancer idle gear shaft through 180 degrees.
.....and that should not be possible.

Each shaft either deepens the mesh or undoes it, but only a bit.
18 deg, surely not 180, may be possible. Just a thought.

And another thought. Fit an 18T rear sprocket to relax the thing to get away from whatever RPM/speed is uncomfortable for you. Makes it more relaxed too.

....But a comparison of bikes on their stands seems the way to go.


Don

 

[Bruce H]

Hiya Fodder, Wedge, Redbird, Don and all.

The garage didn't get the CCT til Mon and they were too ruddy busy on Tues, but today (Wed 9th July) they put it in. They reckon it is less harsh now. I checked it stationary, felt the same, I rode it, rode it a bit more and I reckon that it is the same but now the vibes start at slightly lower rpm. To give them their due, the guy that did the job and test rode it, says that he'll talk to Honda and will tackle the balancer shafts but that he hasn't done that job himself before.

They said they'll try and get it done for the weekend and I left the bike with them.

NOW, I would really like to compare bikes with anyone who thinks theirs is smooth AND anyone who gets the tinglies. I am also for turning up en mass to Honda Uk (by arrangement of course) to see if their technical team think that our relatively young BB's really should feel the way they do. I would not complain if it was always like this but it never used to feel this way, it was nice and smooth!

Comments?

 

[boz]

Re: We have just come back from

Originally posted by birdinflight
a 10 day trip to the Pyrenees!!!!
Jaws said that his bike doesn't vibrate?????? Sorry Jaws, but it does.......remember I sat on the back of it!!!!!! How could I forget! It does vibrate its just that you don't notice it.

Ok, this brings up a good point: those out there that claim their bike is smooth as silk, how vibration free ARE your bikes?

The 'Bird is the definitely the smoothest bike that I've ever ridden, and there are some small spots in the rev range that I don't really feel any vibration at all, but I wouldn't say the bike is "vibration free" through the entire rev range.

I notice the very minor buzzing at 3500-5000 RPM, and I got a pretty good buzzing in the seat at around 9500 RPM the other day, but surely this doesn't mean that I have a "buzzer"??

So, everyone, please come clean now and tell me that nobody out there has a 100% vibration free machine.

 

[dpbxx]

Yahooo

I happen to mostly agree with those sentiments. My SBB is as smooth as a babys bum but that is compared to my CBR1000f which I liken to a bad tempered warthog with a nervous twitch. That doesn't mean I don't think it's a great bike, it is. However it is obvious that the problem does not end there. I'm sure there are genuine cases of bad-vibes, to the point that bikes are 'sold on' to alleviate the problem. I for one look forward to someone getting to the bottom of this and posting the answer.



R#?

 

[Fodder]

Well, mine was literally completely vibe free. The sudden change to vibes at the time had me considering if the bike was safe to ride and whether or not it should be 'recovered' from France! It was a bit of a shock at the time, however, on a relative scale to other bikes the vibes aint bad at all :dunno: and seem to have settled into a high frequency vibe between about 3-7K rpm now.

I will get around to investigating this vibe in more detail and hassle Honda soon. I'm a bit stuck with convalescence, housework, childcare and DIY duties at the moment. Unfortunately Karen snapped her Achilles tendon last week, required an opp plus 10/12 weeks in plaster (not good in a house with three flights of stairs!)

 

[birdinflight]

I am offering to .......

collect up everyones details and complaints about vibration, big and small and put them forward to a suitable person in Honda.

Now I have emailed Jaws regarding this and I have also contacted someone I know who may be able to help with regard to the best bod in Honda to go to.

Personally, with the experience that Derek and i have had with two Birds we are of the same decision that the problems are not related to anything other than differences in quality of engine components. Basically we are convinced that this is an engine defect.

As many of you know we had a blue blackbird that was hell on earth. Our dealer did everything that has been mentioned as a 'cure' on these forums...............and more,nothing worked.

I do believe that there are birds that don't vibrate or are very minor. But why should we all pay or money and get a bummer.

I will wait for Jaws to get back to me and then I would like to start a thread or perhaps post my email details so that everyone that has problems with vibration can post all their details.

I think there has been enough talk and and enough what ifs, its now time to do something or at least try.

 

[DonJohn]

Boz is dead right. Defined motorcycle vibration hell is a big Norton before the engines were rubber mounted, or a jampot AJS/Matchless.

Cylinders banging off are going to vibrate, especially if they are not rubber mounted. You will feel a BB at work. It feels nice.

The magic of an early Ferrari was that you could feel every
mechanical component at work and that it felt "happy" doing so.

A 90 degree V twin or a BB is not dissimilar. The vibration is there but it doesn't tingle (my) fingers and toes. It feels "comfortable" where a rubber mounted motor feels too remote for me.

Which does not mean to say that the complaining Frenchman who let me feel a twist of the throttle on the stand was not dead right. His FI bike was harsh and "sizzled" unhappily.

In spite of two oners getting temporary respite from new CCTs the following may not be relevant..........

....So. Suzuki, just a few years back had a "noise" problem with CCTs.
They ultimately ditched their CCTs in favour of a ratchet type where chain slap cannot temporarily loosen the timing chain. Chain slap knocks our CCTs back........er... not mine.

In response to my GRAND FREE OFFER whereby BB owners could send me two broken or worn CCTs, in exchange for getting one redone, fail safe and hand adjustable, for nowt.....produced nowt from the dozens that must be lying everywhere.

....But I did get a brace of VTR ones.

Try me at: BP 271 Poste Francaise Andorra-la-Vella Andorra.

Caveat: I cannot get my bike to vibrate unhappily with any CCT
variation or adjustment.....yet!

Don

 

[dpbxx]

Ok then

Just been for a cabbie to see if its as smooth as we think.

Have sensed no noticeable vibes at all. Stationary at tickover I can just feel the motor turning over, I suppose its a slight rumble.

Mine is T reg FI with only 6500 miles OTC. I wonder if thats relevent. Lets see. Whats yours??:dunno:

 

[birdinflight]

if you have vibration problems.........

see here.............

my bike vibrates!

 

[Bruce H]

Fodder, Wedge, I collected my bike again on Saturday and the garage has done all they could.
It has a new CCT and air filter (in case it was running rich, twas only cleaned at 12k service).
They carefully set each of the balancer shafts.
They set throttle bodies or butterflies with vacuum guages and checked all engine mounts and spark plugs.

It feels just the same to me but the vibes start at lower rpm now (still worst at 4k). I did 100 miles yesterday and the bike runs very well so they haven't mucked anything up, which was my fear. They also did it all under goodwill warranty, bar the cost of air filter. I am grateful for their efforts as I didn't buy the bike from them but now I don't know what to do except talk to Honda UK again myself.

 

[birdinflight]

FAO BRUCE H

I have already managed to get two names of top bods in Honda to contact. If we can get as many folk as possible in this then we may have more chance of getting a solution. We will also have the name B.I.R.D behind us too.


As soon as we can get as many names as possible I shall contact the two gentlemen.

 

[EdCBRCastrol]

Cured the vibes i had

I have just given my bike a once over to set my mind at ease b4 going away next weekend on it. I was getting a worsening vibe at 5-7k and couldnt pinpoint it.
Whilst fitting sparkplugs i found that one of them was loose so probably causing a bit of it, several of the exhaust header studs were in need of pinching up (worst one was a whole turn on the nut) and i also checked the CCT cos i was convinced that must be the problem but all was fine, my vibes have now gone and it feels beatifully smooth again.
May be worth checking header bolts as mine were not sounding as though they were blowing but did need attention.

 

[boz]

Good point. My 1100 Katana used to vibrate like a 25 cent bed, but I did notice that the vibration was a little better after re-torquing the header bolts.

Unfortunately, I had to tighten them every 3000 kms or so

Cheers.

 

[birdinflight]

the majority of folk

having vibration problems have had them throughout the life of their bird ownership, its usually something that doesn't just start suddenly. If your vibes start that suddenly then its highly likely that its something that has loosened etc.

 

[FreeBird]

Paranoia

I don?t know if it real or just in my head due to reading this but my bike sure seems to be much more vibey than it used to be especially it around 4000 RPM :dunno:

Thanks you lot for pointing this out and making me dissatisfied with a fantastic bike