Truss... Oh dear !

[Pow-Lo]

In my simple mind.........
People of low income and people of reasonable income living in same housing group.
Say the increase in running cost will be the same for both houses. The lower income people will be in trouble.

I see reports from charities of a substantial % rise in requests for aid. In that number are people who used to give to the charity before price hikes.

Obviously. However, one of the points I made earlier, which has been missed more times than something that's been missed about a million times, is that most sensible people tend to live within their means.

I'll be silly here, just to prove a point, but I would say it's highly unlikely that two people will be found living next door to each other in a two up/two down with one earning £10k a year and one earning £500k a year. A 200% increase on outgoings, for all intents and purposes, is going hit most people equally hard.

 

[Squag1]

But many people don't know how to manage. On a TV prog a few years ago they visited a family in a less well off area to observe their lifestyle.
I cannot remember details but their shopping basket was not at all sensible.
I've seen comments on some people's shopping in UK who couldn't recognise vegetables.

I don't know how you solve these problems.

 

[slim63]

Obviously. However, one of the points I made earlier, which has been missed more times than something that's been missed about a million times, is that most sensible people tend to live within their means.

I'll be silly here, just to prove a point, but I would say it's highly unlikely that two people will be found living next door to each other in a two up/two down with one earning £10k a year and one earning £500k a year. A 200% increase on outgoings, for all intents and purposes, is going hit most people equally hard.

You are right of course but the thing you are missing is this ..............

You and your mrs presumably have a decent income and can if needed cut back on luxuries to pay the bills, we on the other hand are already struggling and there is nothing left to cut back on, all we could do really is sell stuff off to pay the bills

Its not about what you earn as such its about what you can afford to pay and tax cuts simply do not help those in most need as they dont pay tax anyway, what the solution is i dont know but something needs to happen and soon !

 

[Pow-Lo]

You are right of course but the thing you are missing is this ..............

You and your mrs presumably have a decent income and can if needed cut back on luxuries to pay the bills, we on the other hand are already struggling and there is nothing left to cut back on, all we could do really is sell stuff off to pay the bills

Its not about what you earn as such its about what you can afford to pay and tax cuts simply do not help those in most need as they dont pay tax anyway, what the solution is i dont know but something needs to happen and soon !

I'm sorry to hear that, mate.

Mrs P and me are incredibly lucky. Last November, I fixed our mortgage ready for February this year at 0.94% for five years and a few months previously, I fixed our energy bills until September 2024. If we weren't on a fixed tariff, our gas and electric bills would be north of £500/month. Income wise, we do ok and we can cut back if needed but we don't tend to go mad with luxuries anyway.

I take your point on tax cuts. A mate of mine I occasionally see on weekends when we walk the dogs was telling me that he's going to have to sell his house near me and move to a two bed flat. He's 45 and on benefits and can't work because of ill health and his wife had a triple by-pass nine months ago. I asked why he needs to sell and he said he had to decide between paying his mortgage and bills or eating but that was back in the spring before this madness with the energy bills started, so I shudder to think of the shit he could be in now. For sure, tax cuts won't help him because he doesn't pay much tax.

I don't know what the answers are. One thing I struggle with is people blaming the Tories, particularly where I live,* but I don't see how it's their fault when the wholesale energy costs have sky-rocketed. It's apparently not the fault of the people that supply us (British Gas, E-on, EDF, etc.) but the people from whom they buy gas and electricity. I guess one solution would be to hit them with massive windfall taxes and then use the money to fund benefits for those most in need. Thing is, to my simple mind, if they pull a stunt like that, these companies will move offshore and then they can't be touched by the tax man.

As I said above somewhere, something needs to be done and it has to be done fast otherwise I can see some serious civil unrest. Winter is coming and old folk and those with poor health will die if they can't put the heating on.


*I'm known locally as Tory Boy because I'm the only one in the county. I don't suffer abuse because of it because I'm not seen as a threat; if there was only one candidate standing and they were a Tory, they still wouldn't get in.

 

[andyBeaker]

I'm sorry to hear that, mate.

Mrs P and me are incredibly lucky. Last November, I fixed our mortgage ready for February this year at 0.94% for five years and a few months previously, I fixed our energy bills until September 2024. If we weren't on a fixed tariff, our gas and electric bills would be north of £500/month. Income wise, we do ok and we can cut back if needed but we don't tend to go mad with luxuries anyway.

I take your point on tax cuts. A mate of mine I occasionally see on weekends when we walk the dogs was telling me that he's going to have to sell his house near me and move to a two bed flat. He's 45 and on benefits and can't work because of ill health and his wife had a triple by-pass nine months ago. I asked why he needs to sell and he said he had to decide between paying his mortgage and bills or eating but that was back in the spring before this madness with the energy bills started, so I shudder to think of the shit he could be in now. For sure, tax cuts won't help him because he doesn't pay much tax.

I don't know what the answers are. One thing I struggle with is people blaming the Tories, particularly where I live,* but I don't see how it's their fault when the wholesale energy costs have sky-rocketed. It's apparently not the fault of the people that supply us (British Gas, E-on, EDF, etc.) but the people from whom they buy gas and electricity. I guess one solution would be to hit them with massive windfall taxes and then use the money to fund benefits for those most in need. Thing is, to my simple mind, if they pull a stunt like that, these companies will move offshore and then they can't be touched by the tax man.

As I said above somewhere, something needs to be done and it has to be done fast otherwise I can see some serious civil unrest. Winter is coming and old folk and those with poor health will die if they can't put the heating on.


*I'm known locally as Tory Boy because I'm the only one in the county. I don't suffer abuse because of it because I'm not seen as a threat; if there was only one candidate standing and they were a Tory, they still wouldn't get in.

I agree on windfall taxes as they will stifle investment. There are obviously massive winners in the middle of this energy crisis and they could do themselves a power of good if the voluntarily gave something back, similar to the major supermarket chains that didn’t take advantage of the business rate holiday during covid (albeit some were very late to the party and were embarrassed into it).

I am still very much in favour of reducing ‘spending tax’ ie VAT as everyoone benefits and it SHOULD in theory stimulate spending….but there is a danger that could further fuel inflation.

As an aside, while it doesn’t feel like it in the long term a good dose of inflation is extremely beneficial to those who have mortgages as in real terms they reduce.

 

[Squag1]

Putin would be well pleased with civil unrest, might even assist.

 

[Jaws]

I agree on windfall taxes as they will stifle investment. There are obviously massive winners in the middle of this energy crisis and they could do themselves a power of good if the voluntarily gave something back, similar to the major supermarket chains that didn’t take advantage of the business rate holiday during covid (albeit some were very late to the party and were embarrassed into it).

I am still very much in favour of reducing ‘spending tax’ ie VAT as everyoone benefits and it SHOULD in theory stimulate spending….but there is a danger that could further fuel inflation.

As an aside, while it doesn’t feel like it in the long term a good dose of inflation is extremely beneficial to those who have mortgages as in real terms they reduce.

Need a bit of help here Andy..

If what you say is true, what happened in the late 80's when thousands found themselves facing mortgage payments they could not make and being in a negative equity situation with the property value
Surely that was primarily caused by rampant inflation same as today ?

Same thing happened in Spain about 15 years ago. .A member of Bird had moved out there and owned a small bar
The value of the place fell so low they could not even give it away and ended up coming back to the UK, simply abandoning the house and bar

 

[andyBeaker]

Need a bit of help here Andy..

If what you say is true, what happened in the late 80's when thousands found themselves facing mortgage payments they could not make and being in a negative equity situation with the property value
Surely that was primarily caused by rampant inflation same as today ?

Same thing happened in Spain about 15 years ago. .A member of Bird had moved out there and owned a small bar
The value of the place fell so low they could not even give it away and ended up coming back to the UK, simply abandoning the house and bar

The massive negative equity problem in the late 80s early 90s was the result of a collapse in house prices coupled with lenders making ridiculously high loan to value mortgages available - some at 110% loan to property value. I remember it well as we bought our third home for £110,000 that had been ininitially marketed at around £190,000 about six months earlier, sadly a repossession.

Property values historically follow a similar pattern…years of growth then a sharp downturn. If I had a pound for every time I had to explain to a bright young banker that property prices do fall as well as go up I would have a lot of pounds.

 

[Duck n Dive]

I well remember the mortgage problems at the time.

We'd bought our first house getting a loan at an earnings multiple that our local building society and banks wouldn't consider.

We bought by buying new via the builders tame estate agency who arranged mortgages.

The only way we could get the mortgage was to agree an interest only mortgage with a particular building society they used linked to an insurance scheme they also promoted.

These days that would not be permitted, it was rife back then.

Luckily by the time rates went up I was earning more and we could just about manage.

We sat tight and eventually things got back to normal and eventually we were able to unwind the crazy deal.

 

[derek kelly]

We bought a three bed semi in Chelmsford for £22,750 in 1982, we sold it a year later for £27.950, we bought a three bed detached in Wakefield for just over £23,000, around 1985 we decided we needed double glazing so went to the building society to add the cost to the mortgage & were told “we’re not lending money for improvements, it’s all going for house purchases. We sold that house in 1993 (just ten years after purchase, it was valued at £153,000, we accepted £135,000 for a quick sale as we then bought the smallholding.

 

[Minkey]

Truss strikes again, according to Liz better paid people deserve more money back under her plan people on average wage will be £1800 better off whilst those on minimum wage will be £7.99 better off doesn't smell right to me

 

[andyBeaker]

Truss strikes again, according to Liz better paid people deserve more money back under her plan people on average wage will be £1800 better off whilst those on minimum wage will be £7.99 better off doesn't smell right to me

Source?

 

[derek kelly]

Apparently Truss is the clear favourite for the PM’s job, on past polls that means prepare for Sunak to win.

 

[Malone]

I’m still going for Boris

 

[Squag1]

I’m still going for Boris

Hope you catch him......

 

[Cougar377]

Or you could vote for Larry the Downing Street cat....

 

[Pow-Lo]

Truss strikes again, according to Liz better paid people deserve more money back under her plan people on average wage will be £1800 better off whilst those on minimum wage will be £7.99 better off doesn't smell right to me

You might want to check that and perhaps provide a source because it sounds like nonsense to me. That make no mathematical sense whatsoever. Perhaps andyBeaker can do the maths but I shudder to think how much someone would need to be earning to be £1,800 better off after a tax cut. Unless we're talking £1,800/year, but even then one would have to be on a six figure salary for that.

 

[Centaur]

I agree on windfall taxes as they will stifle investment. There are obviously massive winners in the middle of this energy crisis and they could do themselves a power of good if the voluntarily gave something back, similar to the major supermarket chains that didn’t take advantage of the business rate holiday during covid (albeit some were very late to the party and were embarrassed into it).

I am still very much in favour of reducing ‘spending tax’ ie VAT as everyoone benefits and it SHOULD in theory stimulate spending….but there is a danger that could further fuel inflation.

As an aside, while it doesn’t feel like it in the long term a good dose of inflation is extremely beneficial to those who have mortgages as in real terms they reduce.

A concept I have often struggled to get peeps to understand. A whiff of inflation is good for the middle class. Rampant is a disaster for everyone.

 

[Centaur]

I'm sorry to hear that, mate.

Mrs P and me are incredibly lucky. Last November, I fixed our mortgage ready for February this year at 0.94% for five years and a few months previously, I fixed our energy bills until September 2024. If we weren't on a fixed tariff, our gas and electric bills would be north of £500/month. Income wise, we do ok and we can cut back if needed but we don't tend to go mad with luxuries anyway.

I take your point on tax cuts. A mate of mine I occasionally see on weekends when we walk the dogs was telling me that he's going to have to sell his house near me and move to a two bed flat. He's 45 and on benefits and can't work because of ill health and his wife had a triple by-pass nine months ago. I asked why he needs to sell and he said he had to decide between paying his mortgage and bills or eating but that was back in the spring before this madness with the energy bills started, so I shudder to think of the shit he could be in now. For sure, tax cuts won't help him because he doesn't pay much tax.

I don't know what the answers are. One thing I struggle with is people blaming the Tories, particularly where I live,* but I don't see how it's their fault when the wholesale energy costs have sky-rocketed. It's apparently not the fault of the people that supply us (British Gas, E-on, EDF, etc.) but the people from whom they buy gas and electricity. I guess one solution would be to hit them with massive windfall taxes and then use the money to fund benefits for those most in need. Thing is, to my simple mind, if they pull a stunt like that, these companies will move offshore and then they can't be touched by the tax man.

As I said above somewhere, something needs to be done and it has to be done fast otherwise I can see some serious civil unrest. Winter is coming and old folk and those with poor health will die if they can't put the heating on.


*I'm known locally as Tory Boy because I'm the only one in the county. I don't suffer abuse because of it because I'm not seen as a threat; if there was only one candidate standing and they were a Tory, they still wouldn't get in.

Very worrying Pow-Lo. I completely agree with your thoughts.

 

[Minkey]

Very worrying Pow-Lo. I completely agree with your thoughts.

My fixed electricity term runs out next June and I must admit to being worried about how much it will increase especially when you add in an 11% hike in rent. My pay will go up by £16.64 a month.