SMA tarmac

[Tinytim]

I went to recover a guy today binned his bandit down pembroke on sma he said he did fook all wrong the bike just went away from him

make the most of the grippy stuff we have left cos the way things are going in ten yrs sma will be everywhere

Blu.....how can you find out/tell what's SMA and what aint?...I ask, as a lot of new surface is going down around our way ...and in Super quick time....and on Tuesday on one of my favourite stretches out to the Snake Pass...just a coupla miles from our house, a workmate I have known for 30 years lost his Buell coming out of a beautiful S bend....with a lovely new surface.... over to the other side and under an oncoming lorry. Tragically he lost his life.

So have you got any info on this SMA so's I can delve please.

Tim

 

[wotnot]

TinyTim

Look here for more info d34l

 

[Tinytim]

Look here for more info d34l

w;;v and cheers for that wotnot. k1ap

 

[ericonblackbird]

There is a lot of information available on the web regarding this stuff and the accidents it has 'caused'.

A quick google for "stone mastic asphalt"+accident drags up more than I care to read! This is a worldwide 'problem'.

I tackled a Highways Agency engineer on this subject a few months ago and he was shocked when I told him that the skid resistance tests that were carried out prior to it being authorised for use used only 4 wheel vehicles in the testing.

 

[Tinytim]

There is a lot of information available on the web regarding this stuff and the accidents it has 'caused'.

A quick google for "stone mastic asphalt"+accident drags up more than I care to read! This is a worldwide 'problem'.

I tackled a Highways Agency engineer on this subject a few months ago and he was shocked when I told him that the skid resistance tests that were carried out prior to it being authorised for use used only 4 wheel vehicles in the testing.

Thanks very much.

 

[blumeeni]

TT so sorry to hear of your m8

when this stuff has just been laid it's absolutely fukcing lethal

 

[Pablo2]

Everyone seems to be agreeing that we should have what we want, so I'm gonna throw you an alternative thought :

There is some useful, if rather turgid, reading to be had at http://www.roadscodes.org/ which are the industries own guidelines. In particular looking for surface related issues in the Risk and Liability section and also the Best practice for surfacing. This is what the industry is supposed to work to.

There is also an interesting article at http://www.network.mag-uk.org/june05p9.html and this gets straight to the point.

Back in 98/99/2000 I did a load of work for the HA (writing management information systems...in particular, project management and monitoring). Surfaces are chosen on the basis of economy, durability, noise and safety at the speed limit set for that road. As mentioned before the safety stats for surfaces are based on tests involving four wheeled vehicles, not two. Negative textured surfaces score well on the economy, durablity and noise fronts....on the safety front it's obviously not so safe. When I was working for HA they loved the stuff....it's not the cheapest stuff to prepare, but it's easy to lay and requires less road preperation so it's cheaper overall.

I had a quick chat with a policeman friend of mine and i was surprised at how little sympathy he showed. His position pretty much echo'd the comment made earlier that if bikers want to ride fast they should do so at a track day...otherwise, tough s**t.

In this chat I had my mate accused me of driving too fast/of being a fast driver. To put this in some perspective, on the recent run down to Hereford, Stan shot off down the B4521 (quite a windy road) and must have made 3-5 minutes on me before we reached the main road over a 15 mile run. If I'm a fast driver (which I doubt compared to most of the people on this forum), what does that make Stan?

I suspect some of you think you're not driving that fast when actually you are...the bird is a very balanced and friendly bike to drive fast, but is it safe to constantly drive it to it's limits?

I can't see this surface going away or being modified. I suspect that we're gonna have to slow down.

Cheers...P

 

[BlackBirdBaz]

Have you ever been on University Challenge :yo:

 

[Pablo2]

I'm afraid not...In my uni days it was 15 to 1 or bust (1988 to 1991). I thought 15 to 1 was better and C rate uni's never get near to the shows anyway. :bang:

We're digressing again c7u8
P

 

[Smix]

BUT - SMA is a dangerous surface for both 4 and 2 wheels vehicles within legal speed limits, so - if you ride within speed limits and still lose control on SMA, are you responsible??? I don't think so. Surely we can expect roads to be safe at legal speeds?

 

[Pablo2]

I'm afraid I disagree. If we were all crashing on SMA then it would be an issue, but we aren't. I'm afraid the cons of SMA are outweighed by the pro's for those who judge these things. These people don't care about bikers (who does except other bikers?) but we aint gonna change that...ever! Sorry folks, but the facts on the ground (as the Israeli's and Turks are fond of saying) mean we're all gonna have to get used to it. :violin:

I was taught (when I was a nipper) that it's the riders responsibility to judge the conditions, including the state of the surface, and that if in doubt slow down. I personally take this as sage advice. Last night I ran down fairly newly laid SMA (A617) and gave it the attention it deserved. I still enjoyed the corners, but I didn't drive as hard as I could have done.

If you drive to the limits of the bike/surface interface then every now and then your gonna loose the bet. I suspect this is what happened to Mr Meeni. If you want to do that it's your shout, but don't blame the surface entirelly...it's as much his fault as the surface and as he knows what SMA is like (we all do now) he will now live and learn to take it a bit easier. At least he's alive which from my recollection of that road he should be tahnkful for.

I love being devils advocate...any other controversial topics to dig into? :lick:

Cheers....P

 

[blumeeni]

I'm afraid I disagree. If we were all crashing on SMA then it would be an issue, but we aren't. I'm afraid the cons of SMA are outweighed by the pro's for those who judge these things. These people don't care about bikers (who does except other bikers?) but we aint gonna change that...ever! Sorry folks, but the facts on the ground (as the Israeli's and Turks are fond of saying) mean we're all gonna have to get used to it. :violin:

I was taught (when I was a nipper) that it's the riders responsibility to judge the conditions, including the state of the surface, and that if in doubt slow down. I personally take this as sage advice. Last night I ran down fairly newly laid SMA (A617) and gave it the attention it deserved. I still enjoyed the corners, but I didn't drive as hard as I could have done.

If you drive to the limits of the bike/surface interface then every now and then your gonna loose the bet. I suspect this is what happened to Mr Meeni. If you want to do that it's your shout, but don't blame the surface entirely...it's as much his fault as the surface and as he knows what SMA is like (we all do now) he will now live and learn to take it a bit easier. At least he's alive which from my recollection of that road he should be thankful for.

I love being devils advocate...any other controversial topics to dig into? :lick:

Cheers....P

Hi Pab just read your above and I was gonna reply with an intelligent retort but I'm afraid I'm too hot and sticky after a long shift driving on sma
so sorry

but




























































FUCKOFFthere I feel better now man8um

 

[Smix]

got to agree Blu!!! Well, maybe not so strongly, but with the sentiment!!

SMA can cause cars to skid and crash when just gong slowly down a hill - to the extent that a road was closed by a local copper for that reason (with no authorisation). Having watch a people carrier smash into a bridge through sliding for no apparent reason on new tarmac (yes, SMA) he decided it was unsafe. That isn't something that you can 'drive sensibly' for. The stuff IS lethal! I been told of a case in Wales of an off duty police driver having an accident on the stuff and a family member in his car being killed. He lost his job as well due to the accident. As a result of his persistance on proving his innocence from careless driving, he did prove that the SMA surface was the fault.

And although most of us now know about SMA being lethal and therefore I guess we all treat new laid tarmac with caution, last year I'd never heard of it and looked forward to playing on the new stuff cos it was so smooth. Guess I was just lucky?

How many people still have no idea that this stuff can kill???

 

[blumeeni]

The copper's wife died in that incident very tragic

I'd heard of SMA before my off but didn't know much about it as I suspect a lot of rider's/driver's

It's only since my off that I started to do research on the stuff and now adjust my riding to suit

 

[chuffmeister]

The copper's wife died in that incident very tragic

I'd heard of SMA before my off but didn't know much about it as I suspect a lot of rider's/driver's

It's only since my off that I started to do research on the stuff and now adjust my riding to suit

neither had I blu, but will be spending some time researching it now. :bow: for raising the subject.

oh and nice reply above :yo: even colour coded h1d1ng2

 

[dayglow]

like it or not..sma is going to be a significant factor in a lot of accidents

injuries and fatalities....i too am a victim... at 25mph in a strait line.....FFS:bang:

unless.....g0551p











... we all write to our MP's with a shit load of evidenced34l to get questions asked in the house...
in a democracy...it's up to us:dunno:


regards:yo:

layhow

 

[blumeeni]

Your right that's exactly what we should all be doing trouble is I wrote one earlier this year in Febuary I'm still waiting for a reply

You've prompted me to write again though

 

[Pablo2]

...there I feel better now...

Good...no use moping around. :yo: Nice argument by the way...a bit emotive but eloquently put. May I suggest you tootle down to the local highways agency office with same sage advice.

..... we all write to our MP's with a shit load of evidence to get questions asked in the house...
in a democracy...it's up to us......

Ah, this is more like it. Surely MAG would have something to say about this (appart from the article I found the other days)??

Cheers...P

 

[blumeeni]

Good...no use moping around. :yo: Nice argument by the way...a bit emotive but eloquently put. May I suggest you tootle down to the local highways agency office with same sage advice.


So glad you liked it and there's plenty more of it if you want.

 

[stan the man]

we're not still on this subject are we......




























h1d1ng2 h1d1ng2






















well.....it is coffee shop innit