Rwanda Flight Stopped

[Duck n Dive]

Following the various court cases this now seems to have been stopped, with apparently some £120 millions of taxpayer money prepaid to the Rwandan government to set it all up.

This promoted me to try and properly research some of the much lauded "truisms" that surround the subject.

I'm not trying to pass comments on the rights and wrongs of refugees, asylum and economic migrants. Just look at the processes in place and how it actually works or is supposed to.

I must admit to some scepticism when I first heard about the scheme to fly people to Rwanda.

I know from personal experience at work that it's almost impossible (without the apparently, in most circumstances, illegal use of force) to put someone an aircraft that doesn't wish to go.

In part this is because there is a legal obligation on the captain not to allow an aircraft to depart or continue flight where there is a risk of danger to the aircraft, crew or passengers. The bar for this has been set quite low, with drunk or shouty passengers being sufficient to require offload or a diversion.

In that context it always seemed a slim chance to operate unless using a military aircraft which can operate under different rules.

That's part one!

 

[Duck n Dive]

Part 2.

There is a theory emerging that the government never thought the flight(s) would happen anyway.

That the intention was always to allow things to go as expected in order to generate public support for a change in the laws with regards to human rights legislation.

The wish to do this has always been strong in the Conservative party and plays well with the party faithful - might be worth exploring when the flying idea was first mooted to see what the political environment was that week!

 

[Duck n Dive]

Part 3

All this prompted me to re-read some of the French comments on the UK attitudes and processes to refugees /asylum seekers.

They've often struck me as making some sense.

So, what is an asylum seeker or refugee? (I'm deliberately not confusing the issue just yet with migrants/economic migrants).

It seems the internationally agreed definition is someone who has the need to leave their country because they are in fear/danger of harm or persecution and whose own government is unable or unwilling to protect them. In general terms international law defines what basic human rights are or should be and a country should protect these for its citizens.

The French have long claimed that much of the problems being caused by this attempting to cross the channel to the UK is of the UK's own making.

 

[Duck n Dive]

Part 4

To see if the French might have a point I started looking at how the process is supposed to work.

The process is aligned with the expectation that the first stage is that someone will be a refugee - they are fleeing a risk or danger. The situation in Ukraine is an obvious example which I suspect few would argue with.

A refugee then makes a claim for asylum to be allowed to enter/stay in a safe country. Again the international legal position seems to be that this claim can be made to any country of their choosing.

I can find no requirement for a claim having to be made to "stay in" the first safe country they arrive in. I can can find references to them making a claim "from" such a place.


The French view is that the UK does nothing to facilitate this process and so creates the unneeded traffic flow across Europe to the UK.

In doing so this causes problems for many other countries not least the French!

I'm left once again thinking that the French may have a point, depending on how the UK actually operates it's processes for handling claims.

 

[derek kelly]

EU have stepped in & said we can’t send the “refugees” to Rwanda, wtf has it got to do with EU?
The idea of sending them to Rwanda is brilliant in principle, sort out the genuine from the economics.
Apparently there were only four refugees on the plane, should’ve filled the empty seats with the protesters.
If someone is in the Country illegally then they are a criminal & therefore can be subdued & cuffed.

 

[Duck n Dive]

Part 5.

What is the UK process for dealing with refugees and consequently claims for asylum?

For this I've gone to the UK government's own information and advice.

The UK government has designated Home Office as the Ministry responsible for handling such claims.

They require that the claim is made in person to the home office by the refugee.

A home office immigration officer meeting will be arranged, referred to as a "screening".

After that the home office will assign a case officer if they are going to process the claim. They say that a final decision should be made within six months.

Sounds straightforward!

The devil is in the detail!!

When I dug further the obvious question was why does an asylum seeker not simply go to the first UK embassy they reach and make the claim there?

Simples!

The government's own guides say you can't apply at an embassy. The same guides point out that you also can't apply for a visa at an embassy to come to the UK and request asylum as no such visa exists.

That means the absolutely only way to can request asylum in the UK is to physically be here first.

 

[Duck n Dive]

Part 6.

Having established that the only was to claim asylum in the UK to be physically here how does someone do that?

They can't do it by using aircraft, ferry or any regular means.

Any carrier of people into the UK is required to ascertain that the person already has the correct documents and the right to enter.

If they don't the carrier will be fined £2,000 plus all detention and repatriation costs.
Those repatriation costs are back to the individual's country, not to the country they've just come from.

I was once involved on behalf of a carrier where an Iranian national arrived into the UK, was detained on arrival, held for a month and deported to Iran. The home office was trying to apply the fine and all consequential cost for someone who'd bought a £60.00 ticket from Amsterdam (where they'd been living legally for five years with their family) to visit relatives in the UK for a week.

The result is no carrier will take the slightest chance of incurring these charges so turn away anyone with the slightest risk.

 

[andyBeaker]

EU have stepped in & said we can’t send the “refugees” to Rwanda, wtf has it got to do with EU?
The idea of sending them to Rwanda is brilliant in principle, sort out the genuine from the economics.
Apparently there were only four refugees on the plane, should’ve filled the empty seats with the protesters.
If someone is in the Country illegally then they are a criminal & therefore can be subdued & cuffed.

I don’t think it is the ‘EU’ that have stepped in…from memory (I read the article at about 4am!) it is The European Court of Civil Rights.

Both Boris and Priti have made very good observations in the past to critics of this scheme - essentially ‘instead of heckling from the sidelines come up with a better idea’. The normal stony silence accompanies by tumbleweed follows….pretty typical of twenty first century politics and media.

 

[Duck n Dive]

Part 7.

Maybe, just maybe the French have a point.

There's no method of claiming asylum in the UK other than physically being here.

There's no way of actually legally getting here without the right to enter - which an asylum seeker usually can't possibly have. Don't forget if you do apply for a visa at a UK embassy it will be refused if they think you may want to try and claim asylum.

In summary it really does look like the UK government is being particularly disengenious when it comes to asylum seekers and refugees.

So, we have actually created the crazy situation which currently exists with the channel crossings.

I've tried to see what other countries do in compare.

It looks like most have a method to process asylum claims via their embassies or other methods as well as in person on arrival.

I can start to see why many outside of the UK may think we're hiding behind rhetoric and really simply don't wish to accept anyone and would rather it were someone else's problem.

 

[Duck n Dive]

I don’t think it is the ‘EU’ that have stepped in…from memory (I read the article at about 4am!) it is The European Court of Civil Rights.

Both Boris and Priti have made very good observations in the past to critics of this scheme - essentially ‘instead of heckling from the sidelines come up with a better idea’. The normal stony silence accompanies by tumbleweed follows….pretty typical of twenty first century politics and media.

Maybe that's because many other countries have systems which actually work?

Set up asylum processing at UK embassies across the world and not require someone to be physically here.
Yes it will cost, create jobs but we've just blown 120 million.

As for the silence....

I think the rest of Europe looks at the UK like you would at someone who tries to get into a room through a door by constantly walking into into the shut door instead of simply turning the handle to open it.

 

[Squag1]

EU have stepped in & said we can’t send the “refugees” to Rwanda, wtf has it got to do with EU?
The idea of sending them to Rwanda is brilliant in principle, sort out the genuine from the economics.
Apparently there were only four refugees on the plane, should’ve filled the empty seats with the protesters.
If someone is in the Country illegally then they are a criminal & therefore can be subdued & cuffed.

It's not the EU. The court is separate I read someone mentioned that Churchill was instrumental in setting it up.

 

[Duck n Dive]

Only recently the UK ended up having to finally send a few immigration officers to France to deal with (only) Ukrainian refugees following international condemnation for saying much but doing nothing

 

[Duck n Dive]

It's not the EU. The court is separate I read someone mentioned that Churchill was instrumental in setting it up.

Correct, the ECHR is not European in the sense of the Common Market/European Union it way predates all that and the UK was at the forefront of creating it and its powers.

 

[Duck n Dive]

On a much more important note


I've just been lambasted for "pontificating" on here instead of getting on with fixing the washing machine!

 

[andyBeaker]

On a much more important note


I've just been lambasted for "pontificating" on here instead of getting on with fixing the washing machine!

Coming my way soon…stopped for lunch (leftover pasta from last night and a cup of Earl,Grey), still have one new window sill to install….I’m sure I will get the hairy eye in a moment…

oak is very, very difficult to saw by hand along the grain!

 

[derek kelly]

Coming my way soon…stopped for lunch (leftover pasta from last night and a cup of Earl,Grey), still have one new window sill to install….I’m sure I will get the hairy eye in a moment…

oak is very, very difficult to saw by hand

Try using a saw then.

 

[andyBeaker]

Try using a saw then.

Good thinking.

Too many blisters the way I have been doing it.

 

[Duck n Dive]

So much for actually fixing the washing machine!

Turns out the shaking drum has caused the dryer heating ducts and various nuts, screws, and plastics to fall apart.

Apparently it had started (!!) making a but of noise - more like the percussion section of a major state orchestra Tring to drown out a NASA launch

It has lasted nine years with heavy use LG inverter direct drive washer dryer, nearly silent operation (until now ).

Next problem...

Instructions to me: "I'd like the same one again and plays a tune like this one"


Gone on line and found them, apparently no good as they're not silver - to match various stainless steel kitchen stuff and fridge freezer!

About to go looking at a few to give me a clue.

Everything these days is either black, anthracite or white
Black or white is a definite no-no, when I asked what about anthracite it seems I have to describe it in relation to it it's closeness to silver.

Me: "it's not silver"

 

[derek kelly]

Anthracite is the in colour for radiators & appliances.

 

[andyBeaker]

So much for actually fixing the washing machine!

Turns out the shaking drum has caused the dryer heating ducts and various nuts, screws, and plastics to fall apart.

Apparently it had started (!!) making a but of noise - more like the percussion section of a major state orchestra Tring to drown out a NASA launch

It has lasted nine years with heavy use LG inverter direct drive washer dryer, nearly silent operation (until now ).

Next problem...

Instructions to me: "I'd like the same one again and plays a tune like this one"


Gone on line and found them, apparently no good as they're not silver - to match various stainless steel kitchen stuff and fridge freezer!

About to go looking at a few to give me a clue.

Everything these days is either black, anthracite or white
Black or white is a definite no-no, when I asked what about anthracite it seems I have to describe it in relation to it it's closeness to silver.

Me: "it's not silver"

We had the same issue, gave up trying to find a silver washing machine and tumble dryer For the utility room, ended up buying white.

Dont get me started on ‘anthracite’ - ordered a lovely sink unit for the en-suite in anthracite - to me that is very dark grey…when it turned up it was dark blue. We if you look up ‘anthracite’ in the dictionary it can be grey, blue, green, gold and many other colours.The supplier changed it for oak but it meant I couldn’t have the slate grey en-suite that I wanted…..I hate the first world,problems.