Hanging off

[Punchy]

..............IMHO is proly only worth hanging off when you've reached the point where you're grounding all else, are still in control and want to maintain you're speed. ............

I agree with d+d. To just put another thought into the subject, if you have dual compound tyres i.e. harder in the centre, then surely keeping the bike upright would mean that you have LESS grip because your running on the harder centre section of the tyre.
:dunno:
Roy
.

 

[Adam Rickenberg]

I agree with d+d. To just put another thought into the subject, if you have dual compound tyres i.e. harder in the centre, then surely keeping the bike upright would mean that you have LESS grip because your running on the harder centre section of the tyre.
:dunno:
Roy
.

The dual compound tyre only has about 2 inches of hard rubber in the center... As soon as you enter a corner, and begin to counter-steer the bike into the corner, you will already be leaving the harder compound of the tyre and start using the softer, outer edge...

Remember - hanging off the bike allows you to carry more speed around the corner without having to lean the bike more.... But you will definitely be using the softer edges of the tyre... as you only need to lean the bike slightly to get off the hard compound and into the soft egdes.

 

[Allan]

Hanging Off the Bike
​

For most people who haven't raced competitively and before you get enough experience at the track hanging off the bike may seem as much as showing off as a useless waste of energy when taking turns.

The truth is that as a professional motorcyclist racer could tell you, hanging off the bike is an important technique that does help to improve turning. Getting in more details as Rick Breuer from Learning Curves Learning Curves explains it, hanging off the bike achieves the following objectives:

1. You can achieve closer radius of a turn with less tire surface (without going all the way to the edges) by hanging off the bike. Actually if you try you will see that you will have to go faster in order to have the need to use the edges of your tires.


2. It will help you get the bike all the way down to the edges of the tires if needed with less effort (less effort on the handle bars.)

3. And most important of all will give you the chance to put your knee down! Yes! This is an addicting act that will bring you tons of pleasure over and over again.

The way to hang off the bike requires practice but it is fairly simple:

1. You must use only the ball of you feet on the foot pegs.


2. You must be able to stand off the seat slightly and hang off the bike from side to side. This should be done without dragging your rear and I mean your butt on the seat when going from side to side.


3. The leg on the opposite site you are hanging off to should hold to the gas tank and should not leave the foot Peg. If you look at your gas tank you will see that it actually has the form for the leg to hold on to.


4. When hanging off far enough your elbow (again on the opposite site you are hanging to) should also hold on to the tank. This will help you bring the bike down and help you stay on the bike.

You can practice these techniques at your next track day. Ask your instructor or control rider to watch you and give you some tips.

 

[Centaur]

Thank you guys......BUT

you are all telling me the same thing (or most of you lol) but you are not telling me WHY lowering the c of g allows the bike to take a given radius corner more upright! When I first posted this I genuinely had no idea but reading your posts and exercising the little grey matter (as a certain Belgian said) has allowed me to come up with a theory. It goes like this. When I am riding slowly the bike follows the front wheel...right handlebar forward and bike turns to the left...but as we speed up there comes a speed when we can't do this....WHY??? because centrifugal or centripetal (can't remember which is which) force would tip the bike over to the right and I would fall off! Assuming I'm still talking about a left hand turn...so I counter this force by leaning the bike into the turn. I do this by counter steering i.e. by pushing the left hand bar forward....the faster I am going the more I need to lean the bike to counter the force. The higher the c of g the more cf (or cp) force I have to overcome! By hanging off on the inside of the turn, I lower the c of g, so the less I have to lean,so the more upright the bike QED. Incidently by my theory hanging off on the outside of the turn would also reduce the c of g but obviously not by as much! It would take a braver man than me to prove it. That's my theory...any comments?

 

[Adam Rickenberg]

Think about this........

Your bike is affected greatly by the gyroscopic forces acting on the back wheel (and to a lesser extent, the front wheel).

(Have you ever spun a bicycle wheel in your hands - whilst holding the hub in your hands - and tried to change it's position relative to its initial position? Notice that it takes some force to change the orientation of the spinning wheel... That is relatively small gyroscopic force acting on the spinning wheel)

Your 'birds wheels are a shite-load heavier, and therefore the gyroscopic forces acting on the wheels (especially the rear) are enormous. It takes effort to change the attitude of the spinning wheel from upright to slanted 'leant' over... The faster the wheel spins, the more opposing/lateral force is required to change its position.

Hanging off the bike (especially at high speeds), coupled with a positive counter-steering input, is necessary to ensure a stable change in attitude of the wheel. Once the turn-in manoever is completed (long before you reach the apex of the turn) you could actually slide back to an upright position because the gyroscopic forces acting on the wheels (now in their leant-over position) will keep the bike leant-over. However, your change in body position will raise the CoG and thus centrifical force (combined with the higher CoG) will start to push the bike upright - and you could soon run out of road in the corner. Hence you stay hanging off the bike to ensure the stability of the turn.

Once you've completed the turn-in manoever, you start to wind on the power with a smooth, progressive wrist action, drive past the apex of the corner and then start to lift the bike as you approach your exit point. At that point, you are hard on the power and looking for the next turn...

Does that help?

 

[gerryc]

From experience rather than scientific theory I find that I am hustling the bike more by hanging off.

Personally I get more conidence in the feeling of being part of the equation rather than having the bike carry me through the corners.
for example when travelling fast on a B road right hander being able to see clearly through the corner and pushing the bike over to the left of the road whilst moving to the right of the saddle lifting with the left leg whilst unloading the right leg and swingin it out whilst remaining upright and braking. Lowering the body over the right of the bike it feels taught and very willing to drop into the bend, as soon as you see your appex the bike feels instictively drawn to it by gettin back on the accelerator. with the knowledge you can move upper body and change angle of attack or tighten up by throwing the bike over further inspires extreme confidence.

I ride with some pretty quick people up here and not all hang off but driving the barge it seems to come alive and attentive when driven using more of your body weight. and generally doesn't have any problem keeping up with newer 600's through the twisties.

 

[Wolfie]

i do it sometimes cause


a) i have just or am about to fart.

b) i have entered the corner too quick and am shitting it so it needs room to move

c) my arse looks good in my leathers.

 

[1200Pete]

Why do peeps hang off the bike in corners. Lower the centre of gravity of the combination of bike and rider??? Any other reasons???

We do it cause we can :neenaw:

 

[blumeeni]

We do it cause we can :neenaw:

not at the mo you don't Pete :xm
sorry :k get well soon dude

 

[D.S.]

I agree with Pete

but I like to avoid getting the rest down! :}

 

[Punchy]

Dya know something I've never read so much shit in my life. The califorinication knobs say this or that... it gauges how far I'm leaning... BOLLOX. If you have your knee down on Public roads your going far too fast for the corner, your a knob head, your an accident waiting to feckin happen.

Just think about it for a minute your going round a left hander with possibly restricted vision so you lower your sight line and lower your eye vision by hanging off to the left with the bike on maximum lean on modern tyres.... well your a knob head because what you have just done is to increase your corner speed and reduced the distance required to stop in an emergency.

Hanging off a bike and getting your knee down is ONLY relevant ON THE FECKIN TRACK... FULL STOP.

 

[Fat Bert]

Was going to keep out of this BUT~~~~!!

Best bit of night fishing I've seen in some time Centaur!

Well done :beer: :beer: :beer:

 

[Adam Rickenberg]

Dya know something I've never read so much shit in my life. The califorinication knobs say this or that... it gauges how far I'm leaning... BOLLOX. If you have your knee down on Public roads your going far too fast for the corner, your a knob head, your an accident waiting to feckin happen.

Just think about it for a minute your going round a left hander with possibly restricted vision so you lower your sight line and lower your eye vision by hanging off to the left with the bike on maximum lean on modern tyres.... well your a knob head because what you have just done is to increase your corner speed and reduced the distance required to stop in an emergency.

Hanging off a bike and getting your knee down is ONLY relevant ON THE FECKIN TRACK... FULL STOP.

I agree with that statement Punchy........ No argument from me there!

 

[D.S.]

If you have your knee down on Public roads your going far too fast for the corner, your a knob head, your an accident waiting to feckin happen.

I wouldn't disagree with you mate, but when the circumstances prevail and the conditions are appropriate I'll do it 'cos the government and its safety nazi's need to get the fuck out of my life. People have the right to be stupid (as someone once said :beer: )

 

[blumeeni]

Me stupid too and will continue too be so it's all part of the excitement of riding why the fook do we do it otherwise I have too much fun to stop anyway
punchy do you never do anything dangerous or stupid
have you done a cali day or anyother track based training

I was a bit sceptical and nervous 3 yrs ago when I did level 1 but it's brought so much to my riding that each yr I did the next level this spring I'll be doing the last level then maybe the following yr do one of they're instructor courses

best pennies I've ever spent on motorcycling

 

[stan the man]

then maybe the following yr do one of they're instructor courses

maybe YOU will get through to peggy then eh!

 

[Centaur]

Not me FB

Best bit of night fishing I've seen in some time Centaur!

Well done :beer: :beer: :beer:

Haven't even got a rod licence!

 

[1200Pete]

I wouldn't disagree with you mate, but when the circumstances prevail and the conditions are appropriate I'll do it 'cos the government and its safety nazi's need to get the fuck out of my life. People have the right to be stupid (as someone once said :beer: )

Hear, hear k1ap I reserve my right to ride like a twat!

 

[Adam Rickenberg]

I wouldn't disagree with you mate, but when the circumstances prevail and the conditions are appropriate I'll do it 'cos the government and its safety nazi's need to get the fuck out of my life. People have the right to be stupid (as someone once said :beer: )

Ditto for me too!

If the road ahead is clear - and you can perceive no immediate threat or danger - put your knee down if you so choose........

Life is fun!

 

[Coggy]

Best bit of night fishing I've seen in some time Centaur!

Well done :beer: :beer: :beer:

What bate was he using?