• Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )

In the News EVs - are they about to hit a pothole?

Pow-Lo

Make civil the mind, make savage the body.
Club Sponsor

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
Can’t acces the full article but there is no doubt that the materials used in the batteries need to be more ethically sourced than they appear to be at present…Panorama did a documentary on this a while back and it made for uncomfortable viewing.

Either way, while I am a massive fan of EVs I’ll be waiting a few years before taking the plunge to allow,the infrastructure to develop and prices to,come down - they are crazy at present…even a well specced Skoda or Kia will push £60k. Also many new ‘EVs’ are existing vehicles that have been modified rather than designed specifically as EVs…….even a fabulous manufacturer in Munich is guilty of this in their latest EV which has a prop shaft tunnel….
 

Pow-Lo

Make civil the mind, make savage the body.
Club Sponsor
Can’t acces the full article but there is no doubt that the materials used in the batteries need to be more ethically sourced than they appear to be at present…Panorama did a documentary on this a while back and it made for uncomfortable viewing.

Either way, while I am a massive fan of EVs I’ll be waiting a few years before taking the plunge to allow,the infrastructure to develop and prices to,come down - they are crazy at present…even a well specced Skoda or Kia will push £60k. Also many new ‘EVs’ are existing vehicles that have been modified rather than designed specifically as EVs…….even a fabulous manufacturer in Munich is guilty of this in their latest EV which has a prop shaft tunnel….
Here you go
 

Attachments

  • 6E41A74A-F5DC-47D0-A0A4-9A756ABB5355.png
    6E41A74A-F5DC-47D0-A0A4-9A756ABB5355.png
    752.7 KB · Views: 7
  • 2DFDF209-8095-4E71-BB7C-1F0BDC1C9C91.png
    2DFDF209-8095-4E71-BB7C-1F0BDC1C9C91.png
    530.9 KB · Views: 7
  • E7B05246-CEF2-40C0-8048-A3C4C7BB1DAA.png
    E7B05246-CEF2-40C0-8048-A3C4C7BB1DAA.png
    1.1 MB · Views: 6
  • 09D1D02D-23E9-4C3E-8F1E-BC9EE7E88056.png
    09D1D02D-23E9-4C3E-8F1E-BC9EE7E88056.png
    809.9 KB · Views: 7

Nige F

.
Club Sponsor
It's not only this issue that needs sorting .... One of the other directors at work has got a Polestar.... An incredibly quick great handling car.... Until you go on a journey... On his trip earlier this week down south he struggled to find a charging point that was either working or not in use. He said that the infrastructure for charging needs to be improved greatly
 

Dangerous Brian

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
I will never bother with a BEV, I will just wait for the Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
BEV simply have too many flaws, not least is the whole subject of charging. Installing 20 charge points at work, fine says the electric company but we can cut them off any time we like should we need the power!
 

derek kelly

The Deli lama
Club Sponsor
Don’t know about hitting a pothole but our hybrid Toyota was struck by a sppeding oncoming car last night, smashed the mirror cover & glass, just been to Toyota dealer & booked it in for Tuesday, total price of parts £135.41, price for fitting, free, well chuffed with Burrows Toyota in Barnsley
 

slim63

Never surrender
Club Sponsor
I have huge problems with EV's and always have had so they are not for me
Here are just a few in no particular order ......

Cobolt mining is unethical seems to cause more environmental problems than the end product cures and that's without getting into the unsafe dark ages like conditions the miners have to endure and that is just one of the precious metals involved

Ev's are less green than their modern petrol or diesel powered counterparts, use as much of the limited natural resources to build as any other car (if not more) and are much harder and expensive to recycle

The infrastructure for charging still isn't there for the amount of EV's that are on the road today never mind those that will be sold in the coming years and sales are overtaking the updating of that infrastructure by a long chalk, government and energy companies promises have come to nothing on this so far and I cant see matters improving in my lifetime

Electric cars are stupidly expensive and the batteries don't last so that's more expense in a few years time + recycling the bloody things is expansive and tends to be done in third world countries where they cant afford to care about the environmental impact of what they are doing

Electricity still has to be produced and this process is still not an environmentally sound process even with the improvements made in recent years ..... the more ev's on the road the more electricity we need and the less environmentally sound the whole sorry process becomes

Electricity prices are set to rise even more due to many factors, money spent on poor EV infrastructure would be better spent on keeping the prices down for everyone and benefiting the whole country rather than the few who have 100k to blow on an unsound green principle

Ever seen a normal car battery burn? trust me you dont want to be within 100yds of that or within a mile of the very toxic smoke, now imagine a bloody great tray full of high capacity ones in an EV going up, the first accident involving an EV that catches fire is really going to open peoples eyes to the dangers of these things

lastly to finish my rant
Hydrogen fuel cells are quick and reasonably easy to make with very few natural resources and almost no precious metals that have to be strip mined at great finanical and environmental cost they are also green safe and stable, the technology to do it has been around for years now so why are we not doing it ? ............... the answer is simple there is not huge profit for big business or governments (through taxes) which smacks very much of Nikola Tesla trying to give everyone free electricity and being shut down and brings us full circle :mad:
 
Last edited:

Duck n Dive

Rebel without a clue ...
Club Sponsor
On a recent trip to/from Sunderland I came across at various times about half a dozen battery powered cars moving at around 45/50 on the motorway, way slower than the surrounding traffic.

I assumed they were conserving power.
 

Pow-Lo

Make civil the mind, make savage the body.
Club Sponsor
I have huge problems with EV's and always have had so they are not for me
Here are just a few in no particular order ......

Cobolt mining is unethical seems to cause more environmental problems than the end product cures and that's without getting into the unsafe dark ages like conditions the miners have to endure and that is just one of the precious metals involved

Ev's are less green than their modern petrol or diesel powered counterparts, use as much of the limited natural resources to build as any other car (if not more) and are much harder and expensive to recycle

The infrastructure for charging still isn't there for the amount of EV's that are on the road today never mind those that will be sold in the coming years and sales are overtaking the updating of that infrastructure by a long chalk, government and energy companies promises have come to nothing on this so far and I cant see matters improving in my lifetime

Electric cars are stupidly expensive and the batteries don't last so that's more expense in a few years time + recycling the bloody things is expansive and tends to be done in third world countries where they cant afford to care about the environmental impact of what they are doing

Electricity still has to be produced and this process is still not an environmentally sound process even with the improvements made in recent years ..... the more ev's on the road the more electricity we need and the less environmentally sound the whole sorry process becomes

Electricity prices are set to rise even more due to many factors, money spent on poor EV infrastructure would be better spent on keeping the prices down for everyone and benefiting the whole country rather than the few who have 100k to blow on an unsound green principle

Ever seen a normal car battery burn? trust me you dont want to be within 100yds of that or within a mile of the very toxic smoke, now imagine a bloody great tray full of high capacity ones in an EV going up, the first accident involving an EV that catches fire is really going to open peoples eyes to the dangers of these things

lastly to finish my rant
Hydrogen fuel cells are quick and reasonably easy to make with very few natural resources and almost no precious metals that have to be strip mined at great finanical and environmental cost they are also green safe and stable, the technology to do it has been around for years now so why are we not doing it ? ............... the answer is simple there is not huge profit for big business or governments (through taxes) which smacks very much of Nikola Tesla trying to give everyone free electricity and being shut down and brings us full circle :mad:
Agree with every word but you’ve overlooked one very significant point; a lot of the materials for making the batteries are mined in Africa and many of the miners are kids.

This is what really, seriously, gets under my skin with that ugly little Swedish twat Thunberg. It’s all well and good shouting from the roof tops that her childhood was stolen (was it fuck as like!) but she conveniently overlooks the child labour involved (as well as the other factors you’ve mentioned) when spouting her toxic, ill-informed bullshit. I wish she was a foot taller and had a cock between her legs instead of her ears so I could beat shit out of her and not feel guilty.
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
I have huge problems with EV's and always have had so they are not for me
Here are just a few in no particular order ......

Cobolt mining is unethical seems to cause more environmental problems than the end product cures and that's without getting into the unsafe dark ages like conditions the miners have to endure and that is just one of the precious metals involved

Ev's are less green than their modern petrol or diesel powered counterparts, use as much of the limited natural resources to build as any other car (if not more) and are much harder and expensive to recycle

The infrastructure for charging still isn't there for the amount of EV's that are on the road today never mind those that will be sold in the coming years and sales are overtaking the updating of that infrastructure by a long chalk, government and energy companies promises have come to nothing on this so far and I cant see matters improving in my lifetime

Electric cars are stupidly expensive and the batteries don't last so that's more expense in a few years time + recycling the bloody things is expansive and tends to be done in third world countries where they cant afford to care about the environmental impact of what they are doing

Electricity still has to be produced and this process is still not an environmentally sound process even with the improvements made in recent years ..... the more ev's on the road the more electricity we need and the less environmentally sound the whole sorry process becomes

Electricity prices are set to rise even more due to many factors, money spent on poor EV infrastructure would be better spent on keeping the prices down for everyone and benefiting the whole country rather than the few who have 100k to blow on an unsound green principle

Ever seen a normal car battery burn? trust me you dont want to be within 100yds of that or within a mile of the very toxic smoke, now imagine a bloody great tray full of high capacity ones in an EV going up, the first accident involving an EV that catches fire is really going to open peoples eyes to the dangers of these things

lastly to finish my rant
Hydrogen fuel cells are quick and reasonably easy to make with very few natural resources and almost no precious metals that have to be strip mined at great finanical and environmental cost they are also green safe and stable, the technology to do it has been around for years now so why are we not doing it ? ............... the answer is simple there is not huge profit for big business or governments (through taxes) which smacks very much of Nikola Tesla trying to give everyone free electricity and being shut down and brings us full circle :mad:
Re the burning of EV fuel,cells - when I was running lpg for about seven years three or four people commented how dangerous they were. It is easy to forget that a fuel tank is an explosion waiting to happen, in the same way that lpg tanks were ……and EV batteries burn like crazy. There are risks to all of them.

Another point is that fossil fuel is expected to be a finite resource so an alternative is needed. Whether that will ultimately be EV is anyones guess, but EV is the only credible option that has been developed sufficiently at the moment. One thing that is overlooked in the fossil fuel v EV debate is that fossil fuel supply comes from a very limited number of countries that control the market, generally to the detriment of the rest of the world……EV will help level out that economic imbalance.

As I think I said earlier in this thread, cost and at present inadequate infrastructure at the moment are all that is putting me off.

In the meantime there is a very nice BMW 650ci Coupe on an auction site that I have got my eye on, complete with V8….
 

Duck n Dive

Rebel without a clue ...
Club Sponsor
What I find odd is that to me it appears the "ingredients" to make batteries are in much shorter supply than the other "fossil" fuels.

So how can they possibly be any sort of a solution?

Are the components of the batteries recyclable in the sense that you can make new batteries from them?
 

Squag1

Can't remember....
Club Sponsor
Watching Guy Martin setting fire to EV car was interesting.
I saw somewhere that salvage will not accept EV cars that have gone on fire due to toxicity.

I read an advice sheet for firemen - run like f#^k basically.

I gather later batteries are somewhat different.
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
Watching Guy Martin setting fire to EV car was interesting.
I saw somewhere that salvage will not accept EV cars that have gone on fire due to toxicity.

I read an advice sheet for firemen - run like f#^k basically.

I gather later batteries are somewhat different.
Guy Martin comes across as being totally anti EV - in the ‘EV’ programme he did he chose the most inappropriate EV to do a long journey in and then did the long journey on just about the most inappropriate route possible.
 

Pow-Lo

Make civil the mind, make savage the body.
Club Sponsor
Guy Martin comes across as being totally anti EV - in the ‘EV’ programme he did he chose the most inappropriate EV to do a long journey in and then did the long journey on just about the most inappropriate route possible.
I didn’t see the programme so can’t meaningfully comment. However, sometimes we’re forced to travel the least convenient route so his experiment might have been valid. The M4 has been closed overnight on at least one section every weekend since we moved back here two years ago. Might not seem much of a big deal to you but it gets right on Mrs P’s nerves when she has to drive to or from the airport and take some long, painful diversions. It won’t be much fun in an EV on a 250 mile journey when a diversion adds 15 miles to the trip and the car only has a 250 mile range.
 

Centaur

Site Pedant
Club Sponsor
Guy Martin comes across as being totally anti EV - in the ‘EV’ programme he did he chose the most inappropriate EV to do a long journey in and then did the long journey on just about the most inappropriate route possible.
I like him too. :D
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
I didn’t see the programme so can’t meaningfully comment. However, sometimes we’re forced to travel the least convenient route so his experiment might have been valid. The M4 has been closed overnight on at least one section every weekend since we moved back here two years ago. Might not seem much of a big deal to you but it gets right on Mrs P’s nerves when she has to drive to or from the airport and take some long, painful diversions. It won’t be much fun in an EV on a 250 mile journey when a diversion adds 15 miles to the trip and the car only has a 250 mile range.
The Guy Martin context…..he picked a car that was clearly designed as a short range runaround at the cheap end of the market, the sort of thing you would nip down to the shops in, then, having studied the map carefully, chose to drive from Lincolnshire to John O’Groats (not sure how far that is - 300 miles?) knowing that charging points in Scotland, and the North East of Scotland in particular, were way below the National average. The conclusion he came to was that EVs were useless.

If he had driven a more appropriate car like. a Tesla to London the result would have been different but, I suspect, not match his agenda.
 
Top