Carb vs Fuel Injection (and age of bike to buy?)

[Tempest]

Been looking to sell my Honda Firestorm which I've spend the past couple of months polishing and tweaking (I must be mad!) with something that's more of an all rounder bike.

I also have a Yamaha TDM850 so trying to replace both bikes with just 1.

Sports/Tourer (for someone 6ft 5" like myself)

ZX12R's and Hayabusa's, whilst exciting, are perhaps not really what I'm after, as I want something I can stick a box on the back and not look stupid with, and also something that's will eat up the miles in a relaxed way.

The Blackbird has been recommended as something that will be the answer to my needs.


Was talking to a guy today who's selling a Blackbird. 16K miles, resonable nick (not perfect) for ?3200 which I feel is a bit steep.
Esp as he's told me it's in need of new chain and sprockets, and also it needs NOW it's 16K service doing (new plugs etc)
I think it's a 99 model (not 100% sure) but it's Fuel Injected (does that mean it must be a certain year?)

He says the fuel injection is fine, smooth ect. no probs.

On the other hand I've also seen another Bird about the same year, but a Carb model, for about the same price and mileage, but with the 16K service all done.

Still feel prices are a tad high (over 3K for a 6/7 year old bike)

Is that right, or am I off the mark here?

But, re my main post title, people with Carb models say they are smoother, faster and generally less problematic than the (poss early) fuel injection models.
Yet, the guy today was saying his fuel injection bike it fine.

So I dunno who's telling the truth.

any advice?

Many thanks

 

[Steamy]

First of all, hello and welcome! w;;v

You will find that the Blackbird is an absolutely exquisite bike to ride. As a tall fella you will be very comfortable on one. Mine is a 99 injection model and I have never experienced any flat spots or problems, even after 59,000 miles on her! When the Bird first came out I rode one of the first carb models and, yes it was awesomely (sp?) fast. However, all these years on and the injection is a stunning bike. This is, of course, my own opinion and you will get lots of views from lots of people on here.

Totally unrelated, but, I see you're in Horley! I was dragged up in Crawley and worked the door of the Millionaire in Redhill for ages (now The Embassy I believe) and even met my ex-wife there - what a shithole! I used to work in a pokey little club in Horley, ran by an Iranian or similar ethnic ilk, can't remember the name of the place but it was tiny and downstairs and always trouble. I even lived in a flat over the opticians in Horley high street for a while - that was alsoa shithole!

Anyway, welcome to the group, sorry for the mental ramblings of a freak and yes, the price is about right, they do hold their value and, yes, it is a good bike in injection model. However, knock him for it needing the 16k service as it is a biggun and will cost about ?400! (I may be proved wrong by others and I know Jaws will service it - or get it serviced for you....)

 

[andy102]

Carbed models are (supposedly) quicker and (definatley) more economical. Fuel injected ones are just as smooth and; as long as it's had the electrical wiring loom mod done(pre 2001 I think),just as reliable. I've got an 03 injected one (fast blueR#?) and have never had any problems with it, bloody quick but a little thirsty, ridden hard I've had the warning bar flashing at me after 115 miles, ridden sensibly I've seen 175 miles before chickening out and filling up.I've been told a carbed one will get 200 out of a tank easily

You pays yer money and takes yer chances (as they say)

 

[Tempest]

Hi, thanks for the welcome.

Apologies for not doing a special "Hello, here's my life history" posting.
Will have to work on that for later

Just happened upon 2 Birds not that far from me.

One a Blue model 16K miles with Injection ?3200 but needs chain/sprockets and 16K service. condition ok, but few bits here and there could be better.
I'm sure the guy said he looks for a fuel station at about 115 miles (which did not seem that great)
(Currently ridden by old boy who bought it off his son)

Other one is Red, also 16K miles for ?3300. Had everything done (new sprockets/Service done and new tyre) but is a carb model.
Not seen conditon, but supposed to be very good.

I think they are both 99(ish) models, but will have to check.

Trouble is, I saw a brand new BLACK one today (had done 60 miles) and it looked superb.

 

[andy102]

One a Blue model 16K miles with Injection ?3200 but needs chain/sprockets and 16K service. condition ok, but few bits here and there could be better.
I'm sure the guy said he looks for a fuel station at about 115 miles (which did not seem that great)
(Currently ridden by old boy who bought it off his son)

Other one is Red, also 16K miles for ?3300. Had everything done (new sprockets/Service done and new tyre) but is a carb model.
Not seen conditon, but supposed to be very good.

I think they are both 99(ish) models, but will have to check.

Trouble is, I saw a brand new BLACK one today (had done 60 miles) and it looked superb.

Gotta be the fast blue one:yo:; should be able to knock at least ?500 off that price (just look on fleabay, bikemart for a guide).

115 mile on a tank was when I was riding it hard, never out of fourth going round the Alps, great fun and the rev limiter got a bit of a pounding; average I get to a tank is about 150-160 miles (17 quids worth of fuel)

 

[Tempest]

Gotta be the fast blue one:yo:; should be able to knock at least ?500 off that price (just look on fleabay, bikemart for a guide).

115 mile on a tank was when I was riding it hard, never out of fourth going round the Alps, great fun and the rev limiter got a bit of a pounding; average I get to a tank is about 150-160 miles (17 quids worth of fuel)

Yeah, if it was spotless then ok, but with a few cosmetic issues and the servicing etc costs, I'd not pay that for the blue one as I'd feel I'd be over the odds by the time I got the bike to the level I wanted it at.

There seems to be some disagreement re Valves at this 16K service.
Apparently the book (so I've been told) says the valves should be checked.
However, some other people are saying that's rubbish and there's no way a Blackbirds valves would need checking at 15k... 50K perhaps, but at 15K it's hardly run in.

 

[Coggy]

That man "Jaws" doesn't charge ?400 for a 16000 mile service

%$fan
Nothing like it he says

Got an "R" reg carbed one myself
40mpg
FI ones do 36mpg and have a bigger fuel tank

 

[Lebowski]

I've owned my Bird for a year now and like you wondered which was the one to buy. So I trawled around here searching past posts on the subject. The conclusion I came to was that both had their merits but neither was the winner!

More important for me was the condition of whatever I was going to buy and the colour. So if that's important to you, wait until you find the right one. We're into selling season, so good prices are either here or around the corner.

I ended up buying a '96 carb with 13k on the clock for ?3000, which was possibly over the top, but the bike was, and is, immaculate. It was the right bike, so the money was less important. It was probably the eighth or ninth 'immaculate' bike I'd looked at.

Would I now buy a newer one? Nope, what would be the point? All I would get is a newer reg plate. What I am trying to say is why spend more money for essentially the same bike :dunno:

Do a search on here and find the things to watch out for, and then factor in the cost of things that might need replacing such as the reg/rec, CCT, fork springs. You can search for this too but as I recall Jaws does a 16k for around ?150.

Hope that lot helps and if there's one on offer anywhere near the Medway/Maidstone area and you'd like a second opinion, let me know.

HTH

 

[Steamy]

It looks like JAWS will be doing my next service then, at those prices!:yo:

If it was my choice, I'd go for a BLACK one, just because it's better, even if the rest of the bike is falling apart being BLACK would more than make up for it AND double the value over some gay blue one.

Right, hornet's nest stirred and away I go.
R#?

 

[Rob N/West]

I got my 99 t carbed bird in march this year , also having owned a firestorm , got the bird for the same reason as you , better range , suitable for fast (ish) touring and a good all rounder. I've done 7000 + miles on it, its now at 37000 miles , been out today with a large group , 56 plate R1 and a couple of older R1's , kept up no problem, although we were all being led by a 600 fazer , the guy must have been wringing it's neck all day because he set one hell of a pace. I have it up for sale on here , and on bikers oracle , because I was thinking of getting a sports bike in the spring , but after today , I've enjoyed it so much I might keep hold of it and spend some money in the spring changing the rear shock and uprgraiding the front forks to adjustable ones and then taking the bike to a suspension specialist and having the bike correctly set up for me , in terms of weight , ride height , sag etc. In answer to your question , the Carb ones are more efficient, fact , more powerful in standard form, fact, and read through this forum , there are plenty of fixes , problems associated with the FI model , but much less trouble with the carbs.

look in bird bitz rehoming you should see my bke with the ebay item number , look it up to give you an idea of what ?2500-?3000 should buy

 

[dayglow]

tenpist..w;;v you should be able to find a perfectly good bird with about 16k on the clock for around the 3k mark...
that a good price.d34l

carb or injection... changeover was 1999...have riden both... injection smoother carb has more raw guts...
both good bikes.. few more electrcal probs with injections than with carbs i understand bl4hbl4h

important factor is how it's been looked after... most birdriders i know cherish their bikes and some
have been known to even keep them in the house...a good one is kept cleaned and polished
no furing on lower front forkes for example... and all other ali bits polished too.

if she has been well looked after, sounds sweet through the rev range
then yer only problem is colour preference
puffypink
bluetit
cackblack
undercoat
or
tvatanium..... exclusive to carb models

if she has been adorned with extras... and they come with the package
then thats a good sign too that the bike has been cared for

if you can get an exceptional 98/99 carb model fer about 3k or less go fer it... if you wana pay more...
then a younger good F1 is your choice
both provide the grin factor:bow:

regards:yo:
rayslow

 

[DB on CBR1100XX]

FWIW

I bought my 'bird after having a CBR1000 for a while. When I test rode the bike, it was a carb one. I was disappointed, there wasn't that much difference in performance twixt this and the CBR fridge - certainly not enough to warrant the cash. In the end I went for a FI 'bird that was MUCH better [IMHO] than the carb version - more smooth, no flat spot right in the wrong place and pulled from its bootstraps ie very low revs.

I always described the bird as two bikes in one: A fast, comfy, lazy tourer that would pull from low revs without having to change gear all the time when overtaking, making cruising a cinch or a fun scratch tool: dropping a couple of cogs and getting the revs to 6-7000 where the second kick in the pants comes in makes for exciting riding.........

No other bike fits the sports-tourer mode so well. I think to find an alternative, one has to either go more 'sports' or more 'tourer'. Whichever version you buy, you will enjoy it.

I will return to a 'bird in time I hope. No other bike has had quite the hold on me that the bird had.

 

[Jaws]

Both of equal value really..
A chain and sprocket kit is ?97.00 ( free fitting if you come to me ) and a service is, as the man said, on average ?150 ish ...
Oh and none of this 'just leave the bike there sir' rubbish.. you get to stand and watch or even help if you want.. so you KNOW what is supposed to be done gets done and if something untoward is found your right there and can see the problem for your self....

And Gatwick is only 120 miles away.. you are local compaired to some of the guys who come to me !

 

[fatboystew5]

despite what you read in the mags, from talking to others the injected model is the more fuel efficent - my '99 FI model always does around 38 - 46 mpg, and will do just under 200 miles to a tank (ran out at 199 miles last week, but it was not completly full before setting off!) and that was on a fast run, lots of overtakng and 130+ moments!


some carb owners I know get a lot less.

?3200 for a '99 bike with 16k is in the right ball park, I recon, seen some '99 birds for as much as ?3900 recently. I paid exactly ?3200 for my '99 bike this year with just 8k and one very careful owner and loads of extras (corbin, D/B, exhaust, hugger etc)

You need to see both of the bikes if you can and ideally get a ride on both to compare how they ride, check gearbox / brakes etc.

Like everyone on here can thoroughly recommend a Blackbird - there is no other bike I would rather have!

good luck mate! :yo:

 

[Tempest]

Both of equal value really..
A chain and sprocket kit is ?97.00 ( free fitting if you come to me ) and a service is, as the man said, on average ?150 ish ...
Oh and none of this 'just leave the bike there sir' rubbish.. you get to stand and watch or even help if you want.. so you KNOW what is supposed to be done gets done and if something untoward is found your right there and can see the problem for your self....

And Gatwick is only 120 miles away.. you are local compaired to some of the guys who come to me !

Thanks for the excellent advice and information.
If I do go down the Bird route, I'll deffo be in touch with you.

 

[andy102]

despite what you read in the mags, from talking to others the injected model is the more fuel efficent - my '99 FI model always does around 38 - 46 mpg, and will do just under 200 miles to a tank (ran out at 199 miles last week, but it was not completly full before setting off!) and that was on a fast run, lots of overtakng and 130+ moments!


some carb owners I know get a lot less.

Stew you must be the thiinest fatboy around and only weigh about 4 stone cause there's no way I can get anywhere near 200 to a tank outta mine (and thats brimmed) even riding sensibly:dunno:. Have you got a Power Commander fitted? Been told they improve mpg (Apologies for going off topic a bit)

 

[Tempest]

Without doing individual "Thanks" posting to every single person here, I'd just like to give one collective, big THANKYOU to everyone who's posted on here so far.
Learned a lot about the Bird in just a very short time.
Seems a few pro's and cons re the Carb/Injection route, with each having it's own issues and benifits, but really neither being that much better of worse to be THE deciding factor on a bike.

The other issuse (not having ridden one) was how it was around corners?
I guess you could say it's Flickability as it does LOOK quite a large machine.

The guy with the Blue bike I looked at, did point out that there was no front fork adjustment, which he was puzzled about, and said it can be quite hard when you hit a big bump in the road.
I guess there's a reson for this (and being new to the bird I don't know what it is) Just seems bit odd to have no adjustment on a top of the range bike?

 

[andy102]

In standard trim you need to 'muscle em' around the twisty bits, they still handle pretty well for a big bike. Now if you want to scare the newer stuff just tuck a 6mm spacer under the rear shock and all of a sudden it's going round corners before you can say apex:yo: and is still dead stable.

Been out today with a mate who has a Sprint, this was the first time I've been out with him since I fitted the spacer, he could'nt keep upR#?.

Front forks are fine though JAWS does a pre load adapter kit that'll give you something to play with.

 

[Tempest]

In standard trim you need to 'muscle em' around the twisty bits, they still handle pretty well for a big bike. Now if you want to scare the newer stuff just tuck a 6mm spacer under the rear shock and all of a sudden it's going round corners before you can say apex:yo: and is still dead stable.

Been out today with a mate who has a Sprint, this was the first time I've been out with him since I fitted the spacer, he could'nt keep upR#?.

Front forks are fine though JAWS does a pre load adapter kit that'll give you something to play with.

Thanks for that.

Just that my Yamaha TDM850 Twin and my Firestorm 1000 V-Twin are so narrow and flickable around country lane bends.

Actually the TDM is more flickable than the firestorm.

The Bird does noot like a lot more metal and plastic (bolted around almost the same size engine) to throw around those narrow lanes.

 

[andy102]

It's never gonna be as 'flickable' as a Firestorm/TDM but you will find that it is a lot more stable than both of em especially on bumpy roads plus it'll tour better than either of 'em; wot dyu get out of the Firestorm to a tank 85-90 miles before the fuel light comes on.

What you lose in nimbleness (is that a word???) you more than gain in the engine dept. I've come up from a CBR600 FS2 which was so light and flickable I was really worried about how the Bird handled, I'm well happy with it would'nt go back; oh an the Missus is happy on the back of it too