In the News A Step Closer to Justice for Harry Dunn

[Pow-Lo]

If Anne Sacoolas sets foot outside the US, she's going to be arrested. Ok, she can choose to never leave the country again, and I doubt she'll ever need to, but it'll hopefully make life very uncomfortable for her knowing that she's now an international fugitive. I'd like to think that's she'll now step up and do the honourable thing. I doubt it but we can always hope.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...pol-red-notice-harry-dunn-death-a9508886.html

Oh, and it turns out that she was never entitled to diplomatic immunity because her husband isn't, and never has been, a diplomat or entitled to diplomatic status.

 

[ogr1]

Shoot the twat.

 

[Pow-Lo]

Shoot the twat.

She should be brought to trial first. Harry's parents deserve proper closure and a guilty verdict and appropriate punishment would hopefully go some way towards achieving that.

 

[ogr1]

British trial?
Why should the Brit tax system pay for the court costs and keep that lying twohat alive.
Trial here..Yanks pay for it ALL then send the bitch and her rub up partner back for the death penalty over there....
Huge pay out for Harry's family...Simples.

 

[slim63]

The bitch should be bought back by force if there is no other option then she should face the full force of the law including whatever penalty we can think up for running away





Before being shot next to her old man & whatever fuckwits have covered for them

 

[ogr1]

The bitch should be bought back by force if there is no other option then she should face the full force of the law including whatever penalty we can think up for running away





Before being shot next to her old man & whatever fuckwits have covered for them

I love it when you sugar coat it.

 

[slim63]

I love it when you sugar coat it.

I am getting much more subtle in my old age

 

[ogr1]

I am getting much more stuble in my old age

Strange that?...Me too.

 

[Dark Angel]

Seeing Harry's story when it was first reported gave me one of those moments when you slowly come to realise that your breath is stuck in your throat and your hand’s on your heart, because it hurts.

It hurt me, when I heard about what had happened to that lad; of how he’d been knocked off his bike and left in the road to die. That hurt me as a man and as a biker; but it was an accident and, as such, it could have been any one of us lying there instead of him.

It was the irresponsible, callous lack of care for a fellow human being that turned my blood cold; and the seemingly falsified claim of “political immunity” that brought the word “murderer” to my mind.

I believe she deserves everything the law has the power to give to her.

 

[Malone]

What she deserves, and what will actually happen will be worlds apart. There is no way on this earth that Trump-ville will allow the extradition of a guilty US citizen for prosecution. Yet they will throw temper tantrums any time a country refuses extradition to them

this diplomatic immunity lark really pisses me off, it is clearly not what it was meant for - actually - what it is it meant for?

no wonder so many countries in this world hate America. Personally, I’ve never yet met a yank I couldn’t take an immediate dislike to.

 

[slim63]

no wonder so many countries in this world hate America. Personally, I’ve never yet met a yank I couldn’t take an immediate dislike to.

I know one yank, lovely lad, but he has been here a while & we have got him trained now, he's even starting to speak English instead of being fluent in gangster bullshit

 

[Cougar377]

Anyone who thinks there's some sort of cosy partnership going on between us and the Yanks really should look at how they screwed us over during WW2 and have been doing so ever since.
They crippled us through Lend Lease in an effort to dismantle the British Empire, claiming that they didn't hold with outdated colonialism... yet they've been empire building themselves since the end of the war.

The Americans have never been our allies, or our friends. They just bully us in a more "friendly" way than most of their other so called allies.

 

[Pow-Lo]

Seeing Harry's story when it was first reported gave me one of those moments when you slowly come to realise that your breath is stuck in your throat and your hand’s on your heart, because it hurts.

It hurt me, when I heard about what had happened to that lad; of how he’d been knocked off his bike and left in the road to die. That hurt me as a man and as a biker; but it was an accident and, as such, it could have been any one of us lying there instead of him.

It was the irresponsible, callous lack of care for a fellow human being that turned my blood cold; and the seemingly falsified claim of “political immunity” that brought the word “murderer” to my mind.

I believe she deserves everything the law has the power to give to her.

It was only an accident insofar as I don’t believe she did it on purpose. However, she was allegedly on the wrong side of the road. Keeping in mind throwing stones in glass houses, I’ve found myself on the wrong side of the road driving in the States, albeit a side road that was empty, and I’ve also looked the wrong way before pulling out of a junction. Difference here is that I’ve got away with just egg on me face. My point is, it’s easy done just taking your eye off the ball for a second.

She didn’t flee the scene, which is about the only positive I can think of in her favour. However, a couple of weeks later she claimed diplomatic immunity, to which neither her nor her husband were entitled, and then fled the country on a USAF plane. She needs to come back here and face the justice system.

Having said all that, I’m half wondering if it would be better if she didn’t come back. Why? How many times have we seen someone cause death by inappropriate driving* and get away with a three month ban, suspended joke of a sentence and a fine of a week’s wages? She can’t be banned or given points, a fine would be meaningless and she’d be unlikely to serve more than 28 days bird (assuming any judge had the balls to jail her). That would be an insult to Harry’s memory.


*inappropriate driving - my catch all term for drink, drugs, dangerous, stupidity, etc.

 

[ogr1]

I think the police fucked up big time, or they had their hands tied from the off.
They had her in custody, questioned her and then let her go back to neutral ground on the yank base.
Did they just believe her when she spouted diplomatic immunity?
If they had done their research and checked then she would not have been allowed out of the country.
'Diplomatic immunity is a form of legal immunity that ensures diplomats are given safe passage
and are considered not susceptible to lawsuit or prosecution under the host country's laws,
although they may still be expelled.'
It says summat when Trump got involved and tried to talk Harry's parents into negotiations under false pretences.
Summat stinks big time here and the only peeps who are suffering is..you guessed it..Harry's family.

 

[T.C]

I think the police fucked up big time, or they had their hands tied from the off.
They had her in custody, questioned her and then let her go back to neutral ground on the yank base.
Did they just believe her when she spouted diplomatic immunity?
If they had done their research and checked then she would not have been allowed out of the country.
'Diplomatic immunity is a form of legal immunity that ensures diplomats are given safe passage
and are considered not susceptible to lawsuit or prosecution under the host country's laws,
although they may still be expelled.'
It says summat when Trump got involved and tried to talk Harry's parents into negotiations under false pretences.
Summat stinks big time here and the only peeps who are suffering is..you guessed it..Harry's family.

Sorry, but how did the Police fuck up?

They dealt with the case and have subsequently prepared a case to go to trial for causing death by dangerous driving. They will have interviewed her and then were obliged to release her on bail (now called pending further investigation). They will have followed procedure which despite what you may think is quite strict in the case of a fatal.

There is no requirement to remand her in custody and even then that can only be done by a court at which point she would have either then have pleaded diplomatic immunity or the courts would have had to be satisfied that she passed the test to justify her remand in custody.

It is not the job of the Police now do they have the authority to revoke prevent her leaving the country, that is for the courts and the border agency along with the CPS, the Police simply have the job of investigating the cause and then presenting the evidence to the coroner and subsequently at any subsequent trial.

The Police did everything right. The case has been investigated, the evidence is prepared, they have done their job, they had no authority in law to detain her more than they already have done, and had she answered to her bail then they would have simply re-arrested her, charged her and then been obliged to release her on bail again.

Again, they followed procedure......

The issue of diplomatic immunity is a matter for the politicians not the Police. The issue of extradition is a matter for the Politicians not the Police.

The coroner will return a verdict of accidental death at the inquest

At the end of the day, if she were to return and stand trial, the likelihood is that she would be convicted of probably nothing more than death by careless driving which carries a maximum of 5 years as opposed to the 14 years for the section 1 offence, for no other reason than it will avoid the case being transferred up to the Crown court (which is where the section 1 offence has to go) and the CPS are too bone idle to fight it so will go for a plea bargain and secure a conviction for the lesser offence.

In reality as mentioned it would be a token fine, she could be disqualified from driving in the UK but that I doubt would worry her, all it would really do is make the injury claim under the fatal accidents act easier to prove liability, but even then because he had no dependants, the value of the case is worth little more than his funeral costs.

 

[ogr1]

Sorry, but how did the Police fuck up?

Refer to the second part...i.e hands tied, no offense.

They dealt with the case and have subsequently prepared a case to go to trial for causing death by dangerous driving. They will have interviewed her and then were obliged to release her on bail (now called pending further investigation). They will have followed procedure which despite what you may think is quite strict in the case of a fatal.

Obviously not strict enough.

There is no requirement to remand her in custody and even then that can only be done by a court at which point she would have either then have pleaded diplomatic immunity or the courts would have had to be satisfied that she passed the test to justify her remand in custody.

Still does not justify a death imo and be allowed to scurry off to a neutral place...pending further enquires 4000 miles away. The Yanks are never going to surrender her back to the UK.

It is not the job of the Police now do they have the authority to revoke prevent her leaving the country, that is for the courts and the border agency along with the CPS, the Police simply have the job of investigating the cause and then presenting the evidence to the coroner and subsequently at any subsequent trial.

Police have done their bit very thoroughly i would imagine, but what is the point if no justice is handed out?
After all the police have and done & dusted with their investigations.
Turns out she lied about the diplomatic immunity.
So..Why did this slip through the net with the cps?

The Police did everything right. The case has been investigated, the evidence is prepared, they have done their job, they had no authority in law to detain her more than they already have done, and had she answered to her bail then they would have simply re-arrested her, charged her and then been obliged to release her on bail again.

Interesting....but totally useless procedure.

Again, they followed procedure......

The issue of diplomatic immunity is a matter for the politicians not the Police. The issue of extradition is a matter for the Politicians not the Police.

Politicians are not consoling Harrys parents, that was probably a police matter too?

The coroner will return a verdict of accidental death at the inquest

Does not matter what coroner reports really...Not bringing the poor lad back.

At the end of the day, if she were to return and stand trial, the likelihood is that she would be convicted of probably nothing more than death by careless driving which carries a maximum of 5 years as opposed to the 14 years for the section 1 offence, for no other reason than it will avoid the case being transferred up to the Crown court (which is where the section 1 offence has to go) and the CPS are too bone idle to fight it so will go for a plea bargain and secure a conviction for the lesser offence.

Yes...It may as well been a local piss'ead who killed him.

In reality as mentioned it would be a token fine, she could be disqualified from driving in the UK but that I doubt would worry her, all it would really do is make the injury claim under the fatal accidents act easier to prove liability, but even then because he had no dependants, the value of the case is worth little more than his funeral costs.

Ok..We all know you was in the force..I take my hat off too you..Really.
but...What is the fookin point with this type of what seems to be a very lenient punishmet in the first place?

 

[Dark Angel]

It was only an accident insofar as I don’t believe she did it on purpose. However, she was allegedly on the wrong side of the road. Keeping in mind throwing stones in glass houses, I’ve found myself on the wrong side of the road driving in the States, albeit a side road that was empty, and I’ve also looked the wrong way before pulling out of a junction. Difference here is that I’ve got away with just egg on me face. My point is, it’s easy done just taking your eye off the ball for a second.

Copy that. I've done the same thing and it is easily done.

She didn’t flee the scene, which is about the only positive I can think of in her favour. However, a couple of weeks later she claimed diplomatic immunity, to which neither her nor her husband were entitled, and then fled the country on a USAF plane. She needs to come back here and face the justice system.

I stand corrected on my earlier post; I'd confused her fleeing the country with fleeing the scene of the accident. That's an obvious sign of my own anger and disgust at the grief that her actions caused - and extended - for the lad's family.

I'm getting angry again, now, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Dangerous Brian]

I have been avoiding this thread but feel I must now put in my 10p worth.
I have served with American forces on a number of occasions and did 6 months attached to the USMC, I have also served in many parts of the world having to drive on the 'wrong' side of the road.
As tragic as the loss of Harry is I fully believe it was an accident, a simple lapse of concentration. The accident was reported and the police investigated as required. The piece I believe people are getting wrong is that Anne Sacoolas did not leave the UK by her own accord. The American machine kicks in whenever there is legal action against a 'service person or their immediate family'. She will have been railroaded out of UK and at risk to her husbands career told to keep her mouth shut. In Iraq we had a Yank that clearly killed friendly forces and he was back in the good old US of A before anyone could ask a question. It is the American standard operating procedure.
Now that the Americans have used their power to pull her out of UK using diplomatic lies there is a lot of dirty water under the bridge for them to try and cover. In most places in the world they simply handover a wad of dollars and I fully expect they thought they could have paid off Harry's parents. The powers that have extracted Anne Sacoolas will never admit that what they did was dirty and they will not want her back in UK telling a court she was ordered out of UK.
At the end of the day if the accident had run it's course without aggravating circumstances Anne Sacoolas probably would not have seen prison time and it may well be that she did not deserve it. Harry's parents would get a small payout. Now you are fighting the American machine and the most likely outcome is a big payout to close it down - IMHO.

 

[Cougar377]

I have been avoiding this thread but feel I must now put in my 10p worth.
I have served with American forces on a number of occasions and did 6 months attached to the USMC, I have also served in many parts of the world having to drive on the 'wrong' side of the road.
As tragic as the loss of Harry is I fully believe it was an accident, a simple lapse of concentration. The accident was reported and the police investigated as required. The piece I believe people are getting wrong is that Anne Sacoolas did not leave the UK by her own accord. The American machine kicks in whenever there is legal action against a 'service person or their immediate family'. She will have been railroaded out of UK and at risk to her husbands career told to keep her mouth shut. In Iraq we had a Yank that clearly killed friendly forces and he was back in the good old US of A before anyone could ask a question. It is the American standard operating procedure.
Now that the Americans have used their power to pull her out of UK using diplomatic lies there is a lot of dirty water under the bridge for them to try and cover. In most places in the world they simply handover a wad of dollars and I fully expect they thought they could have paid off Harry's parents. The powers that have extracted Anne Sacoolas will never admit that what they did was dirty and they will not want her back in UK telling a court she was ordered out of UK.
At the end of the day if the accident had run it's course without aggravating circumstances Anne Sacoolas probably would not have seen prison time and it may well be that she did not deserve it. Harry's parents would get a small payout. Now you are fighting the American machine and the most likely outcome is a big payout to close it down - IMHO.

I've seen similar "procedures" enacted while at Greenham Common. I remember one officer being "reassigned" back to the US after pulling out of the base in his Yank tank right into the path of a bike. The rider lived, but as the saying goes... life changing injuries.

The base commander had a slush fund to help smooth ruffled feathers in the local community. Usually that was to pay for stupid stuff like dodgy driving incidents, etc.

 

[Dangerous Brian]

I've seen similar "procedures" enacted while at Greenham Common. The base commander had a slush fund to help smooth ruffled feathers in the local community. Usually that was to pay for stupid stuff like dodgy driving incidents, etc.

As someone has already said (you), the "Special relationship" the UK has with America is one where they appear to be nice while making us do what they want. The arrogance of the USA is beyond belief.
The police who interviewed Anne will know if she was arrogant or remorseful, but I suspect they will not be able to say while the case is open.