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Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )
It is with regret that I do this, but..
- Thread starter Jaws
- Start date
I have issues with this:
[1] Would you apply your rule to everyone? If so then this place would suffer some great losses.
[2] This is an internet forum. What do you expect?
[3] Free speech overrides pandering to the sensitive
Having said that the analogy I have for forums in real life is pubs: All sorts of people speaking all sorts of bollox. The landlord has the last word and shouldn't faff about with votes and dragging it on. They should be decisive. People then accept their decision or they also leave the room.
Corrected for you !!!
Regarding free speech ..... There is a place in London where people can voice opinions .. It's called speakers corner s04pb0x6
How long would DaveyB last there before he got 'butted, punched or spat at' ???
I'm guessing not long at all
Putting him on a blocked list is all well and good if you sign in
If you happen to be a prospective member OR you are visiting the site OR haven't signed in .... You get to see the posts in full !
That isn't so good and would probably put off future members ..... This is my concern ... We need to grow and evolve
Come on Jaws..... with over 60% of the vote is a ban ... Permanent or temporary (is say ... 5 years temporary enough ?)
Time to make a decision .......
To almost quote the clash
Should he stay or should he go ?
If he goes there will be trouble
If he stays there will be double ??
So come on and let us know
Should he stay or should he go ??
noobie
Clueless in most things
I'm sure he has something to offer the forum but it was the constant race and racism accusations almost on a daily basis across the forum that became unnecessary, incorrect and tiring.
We could have had one thread and channelled all race/immigration into that possibly but when you sign into a bike forum to continually see race this and race that and unless you agree with the main protagonist then you also must be racist then it will irk and ire most members.
It is after all supposed to be largely a bike forum and to be fair, more than anyone else, John did try to point out on multiple occasions that whilst Davey had points to raise that the way he was doing it had gone way beyond than just a different style and yet Davey did what most "it's everyone else not me" people do, they bunker in and come out fighting even worse.
Davey's actions despite plenty of opportunity to change this, really only ever saw this going one way but at every point Davey himself could have changed that direction he chose not too. Sad but that is the way he took the direction. What follows is merely a consequence of his choices.
We could have had one thread and channelled all race/immigration into that possibly but when you sign into a bike forum to continually see race this and race that and unless you agree with the main protagonist then you also must be racist then it will irk and ire most members.
It is after all supposed to be largely a bike forum and to be fair, more than anyone else, John did try to point out on multiple occasions that whilst Davey had points to raise that the way he was doing it had gone way beyond than just a different style and yet Davey did what most "it's everyone else not me" people do, they bunker in and come out fighting even worse.
Davey's actions despite plenty of opportunity to change this, really only ever saw this going one way but at every point Davey himself could have changed that direction he chose not too. Sad but that is the way he took the direction. What follows is merely a consequence of his choices.
Shows what stats can do. I read it that 81% do not want a permanent ban.
Or 94% will not or do not have him on their barred list ???
Or 91% disagree with the statement "Davey bee should not be removed as a member"
And I will continue to do so despite now being bikeless, for ever@tu*
Bikes are crap, cars are sooooooooooooooo much better.
Hope that satisfies your thirst;-0))
Barrie
Registered User
I simply ignore him since he put me on his list of racists on here. Everyone one who knows me know it's bullshit so his comments don't matter.
R
Red Mick
Guest
I suppose if he was a sponsor, banning him would be problematic. However.......
I will answer these points in order because although we do disagree on some things I do respect your right to an opinion @tu*
(1) Yes I would apply my rule to everyone including myself, to explain I don't believe we would lose members because other people who post in a slightly antagonistic way do it with tongue firmly in cheek & are also big enough men to admit when they overstep the mark & apologise .. I call it good manners @tu*
(2) I expect a certain level of manners as I do in the real world, just like both my & your pub analogy's
(3) If you think I'm sensitive you really do have the wrong idea, you couldn't be further from the truth .... free speech is fine if someone has a valid point.
For me its simple if daisy bell suffered because of his background/ race/ colour/ religion/ sexual preferences/ disability that is wrong but I don't believe this is the place to air his opinions on it ....
... He should get off his arse & do something about it out in the real world
This may be the crux of where we disagree.
e.g. David Icke - he has every right to express himself despite it being total bollox in my opinion. That's the thing : opinions. Who should judge if someone has a valid point and hence whether they're entitled to express it. That's a dangerous path.
Free speech is free speech
That said if someone came in my house and starting spouting bollox then I reserve the right to ask them to leave.
Ok, so Boitje's already done this but to give you more of an idea of how relaxed this place is, check out the rules of the Rolex forum. Any capitalisation is that of the original author, not me :-0)
"As you all know, TRF prides itself in being amongst the friendliest boards on the internet.
With the huge membership (and many more members joining each day), we feel that it's necessary to set ground rules. We are aware that the majority of members are self policing but nonetheless the rules apply to all members, old and new.
Please note that for the well being of the forums the rules will be rigorously administered. Multiple, identical/similar threads on different boards may be removed or merged.
"1. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS OR INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE (and WE MEAN IT). We love to joke around here but, the joking stops as soon as someone stops laughing. You must take the view that we are a worldwide forum and that an attitude of sensitivity and respect should be the order of the day.
2. RESPECT THE OPINION AND CHOICES OF OTHERS. Example: If someone puts their Sea Dweller on a Pink and baby blue nato strap, that's their business. Think first .... click the back button on your browser and avoid posting a comment that will insult others and earn yourself infraction points.
3. THIS IS TRF AND NOT <INSERT OTHER FORUM NAME HERE>. Don't bother bringing in disputes that start elsewhere into TRF. Mods will just delete those threads and issue points.
4.FORUM IS NOT TO BE USED FOR :
(i) LINKS TO REPLICA, PERSONAL OR COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE WEBSITES or BLOGS, UNLESS WITH FULL PRIOR ADMIN PERMISSION, AND ANY FORM OF SELLING WHATSOEVER UNLESS WITH FULL ADMIN PERMISSION AND IN FOR-SALE FORUM ONLY..
(ii) THE OFFERING OF (OR INFERENCE TO) ANY WATCH OR ARTICLE FOR SALE IN ANY POST, SIGNATURE OR OTHERWISE OUTSIDE THE FOR SALE OR TRADE SECTION. ADMIN RESERVES THE RIGHT TO IMMEDIATELY REMOVE SUCH OFFERINGS AND WILL ISSUE A WARNING ACCOMPANIED BY INFRACTION POINTS.
(iii) TRF IS NOT A SHOPPING SERVICE SO PLEASE DO NOT ASK WHERE OR WHO YOU CAN BUY SUCH AND SUCH A WATCH FROM, WHICH AD OR PERSON TO SHOP AT, OR THAT YOU WANT SOMEBODY TO GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU FOR YOUR DESIRES. IF YOU WANT TO BUY OR ARE LOOKING FOR A PARTICULAR WATCH OR ACCESSORY USE THE "WANTED TO BUY" BOARD ONCE YOU HAVE MET THE FORUM REQUIREMENTS.
5. THIS IS NOT A FORUM FOR THE DISCUSSION OF FAKE WATCHES, BRACELETS ETC, and your opinion are about FAKE WATCHES and who makes them, sells them, buys them and wears them is NOT welcome.
6.CONTROVERSIAL TOPICS OR POSTS such as those relating to politics, race, culture, religion, sexual orientation, objectification or discrimination, violence (toward persons or animals) will be subject to the final and absolute discretion of the Moderators to be immediately locked and/or removed without notice to any member. No gun, knife, weapon threads or pictures of such since we are a worldwide forum and many members are not comfortable with this type of material. Infraction points and a possible lifelong ban will inevitably accompany such pictures, posts, or threads.
7. Knowing that a scammer is a banned or current member, and not reporting it to Admin, is an offence that carries a mandatory TRF suspension and may result in an permanent ban.
8. Warning do not post any possible copyright infringements like Rolex T-Shirts etc unless they are officially authorized by Rolex. Any posts that's deemed a possible copyright infringement will be removed by any MOD or Admin..
9.MODERATORS and ADMINISTRATOR DECISIONS ARE FINAL.
10. Only one user active account is allowed on forum at any one time, any member registering and knowingly using two accounts could face a instant ban."
"As you all know, TRF prides itself in being amongst the friendliest boards on the internet.
With the huge membership (and many more members joining each day), we feel that it's necessary to set ground rules. We are aware that the majority of members are self policing but nonetheless the rules apply to all members, old and new.
Please note that for the well being of the forums the rules will be rigorously administered. Multiple, identical/similar threads on different boards may be removed or merged.
"1. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS OR INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE (and WE MEAN IT). We love to joke around here but, the joking stops as soon as someone stops laughing. You must take the view that we are a worldwide forum and that an attitude of sensitivity and respect should be the order of the day.
2. RESPECT THE OPINION AND CHOICES OF OTHERS. Example: If someone puts their Sea Dweller on a Pink and baby blue nato strap, that's their business. Think first .... click the back button on your browser and avoid posting a comment that will insult others and earn yourself infraction points.
3. THIS IS TRF AND NOT <INSERT OTHER FORUM NAME HERE>. Don't bother bringing in disputes that start elsewhere into TRF. Mods will just delete those threads and issue points.
4.FORUM IS NOT TO BE USED FOR :
(i) LINKS TO REPLICA, PERSONAL OR COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE WEBSITES or BLOGS, UNLESS WITH FULL PRIOR ADMIN PERMISSION, AND ANY FORM OF SELLING WHATSOEVER UNLESS WITH FULL ADMIN PERMISSION AND IN FOR-SALE FORUM ONLY..
(ii) THE OFFERING OF (OR INFERENCE TO) ANY WATCH OR ARTICLE FOR SALE IN ANY POST, SIGNATURE OR OTHERWISE OUTSIDE THE FOR SALE OR TRADE SECTION. ADMIN RESERVES THE RIGHT TO IMMEDIATELY REMOVE SUCH OFFERINGS AND WILL ISSUE A WARNING ACCOMPANIED BY INFRACTION POINTS.
(iii) TRF IS NOT A SHOPPING SERVICE SO PLEASE DO NOT ASK WHERE OR WHO YOU CAN BUY SUCH AND SUCH A WATCH FROM, WHICH AD OR PERSON TO SHOP AT, OR THAT YOU WANT SOMEBODY TO GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU FOR YOUR DESIRES. IF YOU WANT TO BUY OR ARE LOOKING FOR A PARTICULAR WATCH OR ACCESSORY USE THE "WANTED TO BUY" BOARD ONCE YOU HAVE MET THE FORUM REQUIREMENTS.
5. THIS IS NOT A FORUM FOR THE DISCUSSION OF FAKE WATCHES, BRACELETS ETC, and your opinion are about FAKE WATCHES and who makes them, sells them, buys them and wears them is NOT welcome.
6.CONTROVERSIAL TOPICS OR POSTS such as those relating to politics, race, culture, religion, sexual orientation, objectification or discrimination, violence (toward persons or animals) will be subject to the final and absolute discretion of the Moderators to be immediately locked and/or removed without notice to any member. No gun, knife, weapon threads or pictures of such since we are a worldwide forum and many members are not comfortable with this type of material. Infraction points and a possible lifelong ban will inevitably accompany such pictures, posts, or threads.
7. Knowing that a scammer is a banned or current member, and not reporting it to Admin, is an offence that carries a mandatory TRF suspension and may result in an permanent ban.
8. Warning do not post any possible copyright infringements like Rolex T-Shirts etc unless they are officially authorized by Rolex. Any posts that's deemed a possible copyright infringement will be removed by any MOD or Admin..
9.MODERATORS and ADMINISTRATOR DECISIONS ARE FINAL.
10. Only one user active account is allowed on forum at any one time, any member registering and knowingly using two accounts could face a instant ban."
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noobie
Clueless in most things
I think this opens up the whole what is "ist", discriminatory and what is simply a different view, perhaps a thread to be started elsewhere?
I have no problem with Davey having a different view and when he has gotten silly I use my ignore facility
What I have objected to is whilst he proclaims in his signature to value free speech, he then largely infers the whole or the majority of the forum is racist because (a) some may disagree with his view and he doesn't like that and (b) anyone who has a different view must be challenged rather than accept that isn't racist, that isn't discriminatory, that isn't bigoted but simply someone else having a different view.
So for my part Davey's ban has nothing to do with free speech.
The ban being considered is on multiple occasions people pointed out his continual accusations in regard to the forum and it's members being racist when that clearly was not the case, was not acceptable and it needed to cease. HE chose to ignore those concerns and we are here now because of HIS choices
You can disagree with someone's opinion without trying to throw out the race card every 5 minutes to prop up an unjustifiable opinion
You then had the site owner cut him more slack than a slack thing and say hey have your words but accusations, implications or straight out claims this site and its members are racist is unacceptable and you need to change your presentation.
I think to be honest had most site owners seen Davey's continual racist accusations he would have been hoofed out a long time ago. but we all know John is more patient than most and that should be seen as a welcome positive and not a negative.
So for me this is not about free speech but more about Davey's behaviour and continually ignoring of the need to change/adapt his message due to his continual racism.
sad but again, this whole event would not exist had Davey simply seen there was an opportunity to scale down rather than scale up. He chose wrongly.
I have no problem with Davey having a different view and when he has gotten silly I use my ignore facility
What I have objected to is whilst he proclaims in his signature to value free speech, he then largely infers the whole or the majority of the forum is racist because (a) some may disagree with his view and he doesn't like that and (b) anyone who has a different view must be challenged rather than accept that isn't racist, that isn't discriminatory, that isn't bigoted but simply someone else having a different view.
So for my part Davey's ban has nothing to do with free speech.
The ban being considered is on multiple occasions people pointed out his continual accusations in regard to the forum and it's members being racist when that clearly was not the case, was not acceptable and it needed to cease. HE chose to ignore those concerns and we are here now because of HIS choices
You can disagree with someone's opinion without trying to throw out the race card every 5 minutes to prop up an unjustifiable opinion
You then had the site owner cut him more slack than a slack thing and say hey have your words but accusations, implications or straight out claims this site and its members are racist is unacceptable and you need to change your presentation.
I think to be honest had most site owners seen Davey's continual racist accusations he would have been hoofed out a long time ago. but we all know John is more patient than most and that should be seen as a welcome positive and not a negative.
So for me this is not about free speech but more about Davey's behaviour and continually ignoring of the need to change/adapt his message due to his continual racism.
sad but again, this whole event would not exist had Davey simply seen there was an opportunity to scale down rather than scale up. He chose wrongly.
Scotty if you read noobie's post above that sums up my feelings on the matter in a far better way than I ever could, maybe we should agree to disagree & leave it at that @tu*
On the forum I help to moderate the rules run to around 6 or 8 lines I can sum them up for anyone interested in 4 words .... don't be a twat :-0)
The results of being a twat as judged by the admin, myself & the other moderators are ... a warning for a first offence & a ban for the second offence, no argument, no appeal just bye bye & move on @tu*
On the forum I help to moderate the rules run to around 6 or 8 lines I can sum them up for anyone interested in 4 words .... don't be a twat :-0)
The results of being a twat as judged by the admin, myself & the other moderators are ... a warning for a first offence & a ban for the second offence, no argument, no appeal just bye bye & move on @tu*
83% have voted for not banning him.
I think John may regret having so many options to vote for as the results can be interpreted in many ways.
Numbers can prove anything - 73% of the population agree with this statement, the 52% don't. The rest don't know.