Yet another shocking post

[Steve Walker]

Hi Guys,
I own a 96 carbed Bird which now has 27000 miles on the clock. I have been finding the suspension a little hard for a while now and thought I'd look into a solution. On trawling through the threads about suspension, I gather that my rear shock and fork springs could be knackered by now.
I checked the rear sag at the weekend and found the static to be 25mm. The loaded sag with me in full kit is 49mm. The length of thread beneath the adjusting collar is about15mm. I've not checked the front sag yet but will try this weekend. Does anyone know if these figures could indicate a knackered rear shock?

 

[Dark Angel]

...This might help.

 

[Steve Walker]

Thanks Dark Angel.
I did see the post but didn't read to the end of the thread.
It probably makes sense to save me pennies for some bits from Jaws.

 

[andyBeaker]

Measure away if it makes you happy but at 27000 the rear shock will at best be on it's last legs. Thoroughly recommend the JAWS kit, would also suggest the front springs are replaced with JAWS items, makes a massive difference compared to stock@tu*

 

[Steve Walker]

Thanks for the reply Andy.
Yea, think I'd come to that conclusion from reading the past threads.
Just wanted confirmation really. Looks like a visit to the Jaws site is
on the cards.

 

[Dark Angel]

Strangely enough I?ve only had one rear shock failure, and that was at 56K on a Bird that had done lots of two-up, full luggage touring around Europe.

Happily, it failed less than two miles from home (with Mrs DA on the back): I had to go back to the house to retrieve the Gixxer ? which has never had a pillion seat ? forcing me to complete my errand all alone on a nippy little sports bike, out on the West Pennine Moors.

?My life?s always been full of difficult decisions? :-0)

 

[Sled-driver]

Measure away if it makes you happy but at 27000 the rear shock will at best be on it's last legs. Thoroughly recommend the JAWS kit, would also suggest the front springs are replaced with JAWS items, makes a massive difference compared to stock@tu*

Are you seriously suggesting a standard rear shock is knackered every 27000 miles?

 

[Shewie]

Are you seriously suggesting a standard rear shock is knackered every 27000 miles?

One could almost go as far as saying that the standard Bird shock was knackered when brand new.
I spoke at length to a local suspension guru (look here for his bona fides www.acceltechracing.com) when he rebuilt a 900RR shock for me to replace the stock one. He was not very complimentary about the stock bird unit, and, while he tried to be political about it, reading between the lines he basically said it was a piece of shit. Very old tech built to a price point and about as low quality a piece as you could find on an otherwise excellent machine.

 

[ianrobbo1]

One could almost go as far as saying that the standard Bird shock was knackered when brand new.
I spoke at length to a local suspension guru (look here for his bona fides www.acceltechracing.com) when he rebuilt a 900RR shock for me to replace the stock one. He was not very complimentary about the stock bird unit, and, while he tried to be political about it, reading between the lines he basically said it was a piece of shit. Very old tech built to a price point and about as low quality a piece as you could find on an otherwise excellent machine.

Only what John/Jaws has been saying for years, :dunno: no need to be PC about bird suspension, it's one of the most common upgrades carried out on an otherwise great bike!! :dunno:

 

[noobie]

This largely only becomes relevant due to Bird owners tending to keep their bikes longer.

I tend to replace at replacement time than buy stuff before it's needed, but to act surprised a shock may need replacing on a bike before 30,000 will see you also surprised that bike tyres often last less than 4k miles.

You cannot have the higher level of grunt and higher cornering ability/grip within the basic engineering of motorcycles without a higher use of some of the parts needed to do so.

My old car used to last around 40k on the tyres, 75k on shocks etc but my bike isn't a car, it's a bike. I accept that, understand the cost and enjoy the benefit a bike gives me

 

[Shewie]

Only what John/Jaws has been saying for years, :dunno: no need to be PC about bird suspension, it's one of the most common upgrades carried out on an otherwise great bike!! :dunno:

It wasn't me being PC, it was Mr. Sharrard. I already knew the shock was a POS from the pogo-stickesque performance it offered. The 900RR shock he built for me was leaps and bounds ahead of it, and the ?hlins is that much better again.
It's disappointing that Honda chose such a low quality item for such a magnificent bike, but I guess maybe they assumed that, for most serious riders, the stock suspension is one of the first things to go anyway and saw no point in making the bike more expensive by paying Showa for a better piece. .

 

[noobie]

The average bird rider loosing a few stone might help with the suspension too R#?

 

[Jaws]

Just to be controversial, I would say the standard shock is not a pile of crap**, and I do not give a flying foofoo how 'expert' or how much of a 'guru' the geezer claims to be..

Why do I say claims ?

Cos if he was any good at all he would know that all they need is a proper build.. Your man is just interest in flogging stuff.. sorry..

People gobbing off like that REALLY boils my piss..

 

[Shewie]

He wasn't selling me anything, though. I brought another shock to him to rebuild (of which he did a magnificent job) so he really had no dog in the hunt. I asked his opinion as to which would be the better one to rebuild (same cost for either, aside from the new reservoir hose for the RR unit, which was peanuts) and he gave gave it. He had nothing to win or lose by answering my question.

 

[Cbarker]

It wasn't me being PC, it was Mr. Sharrard. I already knew the shock was a POS from the pogo-stickesque performance it offered. The 900RR shock he built for me was leaps and bounds ahead of it, and the Öhlins is that much better again.
It's disappointing that Honda chose such a low quality item for such a magnificent bike, but I guess maybe they assumed that, for most serious riders, the stock suspension is one of the first things to go anyway and saw no point in making the bike more expensive by paying Showa for a better piece. .

The big differance between the Ohlins units and the Honda one is adjustability. I used Ohlins on all my race bikes as I could set them up for different situations/tracks.

I don't see why a well set up unit, suited to your riding style should perform much differently to the Ohlins unit. Although it will always be a compromise I find I rarely adjusted my shock on road bikes.

 

[Jaws]

So why was he slagging off the OEM unit then ??

just ask on here if the rebuilds I do are any good ...

And I do not claim to be some sort of suspension guru

 

[Shewie]

So why was he slagging off the OEM unit then ??



just ask on here if the rebuilds I do are any good ...



And I do not claim to be some sort of suspension guru

Mainly because it's design and internals are based on 80s designs and limitations. The only reason he advised the RR shock as the rebuild candidate was the remote reservoir which allows more oil volume and better cooling, otherwise it was grouped in the same class.
I don't doubt that your rebuilds perform well enough for just about everyone but I ride like an asshat at times and even rebuilt the OEM RR unit, though better than the worn out stocker that it replaced, tended to load up at times if I was really hooning where the ?hlins doesn't. I'm not a suspension expert either and maybe it's all placebo effect. Then again, maybe it isn't. All I can say is that the bike feels better with the ?hlins than it ever did with the OEM, even when it only had 8000 miles on it and was presumably still within it's service life.

 

[noobie]

To be fair, standard mass produced will never be as good as custom fit because if it was, the bikes original price new would have been much higher.

Nothing wrong with specialised aftermarket parts. I upgraded my rubber doll from a cheap chinese one for a german one, real armpit hair too, Cost a bit more but the ride was greatly improved.

 

[Cbarker]

Mainly because it's design and internals are based on 80s designs and limitations. The only reason he advised the RR shock as the rebuild candidate was the remote reservoir which allows more oil volume and better cooling, otherwise it was grouped in the same class.
I don't doubt that your rebuilds perform well enough for just about everyone but I ride like an asshat at times and even rebuilt the OEM RR unit, though better than the worn out stocker that it replaced, tended to load up at times if I was really hooning where the ?hlins doesn't. I'm not a suspension expert either and maybe it's all placebo effect. Then again, maybe it isn't. All I can say is that the bike feels better with the ?hlins than it ever did with the OEM, even when it only had 8000 miles on it and was presumably still within it's service life.

Well to be fair if you really are pushing that hard then the Ohlins would be the better bet but I would have thought you would need the SP1 fork upgrade at least to match that sort of quality shock.

 

[Shewie]

Well to be fair if you really are pushing that hard then the Ohlins would be the better bet but I would have thought you would need the SP1 fork upgrade at least to match that sort of quality shock.

I'd love a set of ?hlins forks but there's no money in the jar for them. I did what I could afford and put Race Tech valves and springs in, which made an even more noticeable difference than the new rear shock. They'll do for now, I can't really complain about the way the front behaves.