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Total Smoking Ban

R

R2B2

Guest
gypsy said:
On a serious i note it puzzles me that people take jobs in pubs etc where smoking is allowed and then complain about the hazards they are facing in doing so.
Doesn't work like that in real life though does it. As Smix says, you get a job in a bar carefree and not worried about the smoke. It's my choice and I don't care about that risk, it'll be my fault if anything happens.............

Then you get ill with cancer or emphysema or whatever and friends & family start saying "you could claim from your employer for that". So, under pressure from the family, you go to see a compensation lawyer who promises no win/no fee so it's not going to cost you anything - and he predicts winning you tens of thousands in compo. He tells you not to feel bad about yer employer cos his insurance company will pay and it won't actually cost him anything either, and anyway, it's the RIGHT thing to do........

All of a sudden this sounds like quite a good idea and you proceed with action as the money carrot has now been dangled!!

Similar thing happened to the coal miners so measures were taken to stop them breathing in the coal dust. Same with the asbestos workers etc, etc, etc. They all claimed off their employers, or the government in the case of nationalised industry. You can't blame them for safeguarding against circumstances like that.........
 

derek kelly

The Deli lama
Club Sponsor
Wolfie said:
is not a prison an enclosed space???

yet the cons can still smoke, incase there is a riot, i think the words used were.


Prisons are banning prisoners from smoking except in their own cells.
 

Wolfie

Is a lunp
Shadow Health Secretary Andrew Lansley has criticised the Government's shambolic conduct after MPs finally approved an outright ban on smoking in all pubs, restaurants and private clubs throughout England by the summer of next year.

He singled out the way ministers have carried out "a series of hand-brake turns" and voted against their own policies. And he protested: "The Government's conduct of this Bill has been a shambles."

He was commenting after the House of Commons voted overwhelmingly to outlaw smoking in public places, leaving only private homes, care homes, hospitals, prisons, hotel bedrooms - and Parliamentary bars - exempt from the ban.



so it is alright to smoke in a hospital and in parliamentart bars???
 

Wolfie

Is a lunp
Very long passive smoking dribble

things to read. Prof Doll discover smoker lead to cancer or something like that, so he should know what he is talking about shouldn't he???

What is ETS?

ETS is often confused with mainstream smoke and sidestream smoke. ETS is the final stage of tobacco smoke dispersion when it becomes highly diluted in the surrounding air. Although assumed to possess the same properties as mainstream and sidestream smoke, this remains unproven.

Mainstream smoke is that which the smoker consumes when smoking, and where nicotine is in its particulate phase. Sidestream smoke is a combination of exhaled smoke and that released from the end of a burning cigarette. At this stage nicotine is moving from the particulate phase into its gas or vapour phase. Both possess different physical properties, and it is therefore wrong to assume that they are identical to ETS, although studies on ETS have a tendency to do this.

Are non-smokers at risk from ETS?

This is what everyone wants to know. The truth is that the scientific establishment has found it impossible to reach agreement on the issue. Interviewed on Radio 4's Desert Island Discs (23 February 2001), Professor Sir Richard Doll, the first scientist to publish research that suggested a correlation between lung cancer and primary smoking, commented: 'The effects of other people smoking in my presence is so small it doesn't worry me.'

Professor Doll's comments may surprise some people but not those who have analysed the argument about passive smoking in detail. In 1992, for example, the American Environmental Protection Agency published a report that was said to demonstrate the link between passive smoking and ill health in non-smokers. In 1996 however a US federal court ruled that the EPA had completely failed to prove its case. It was found not only to have abandoned recognised statistical practice, but to have excluded studies which did not support its pre-determined conclusion, and to have been inconsistent in its classification of ETS compared with other substances.

Likewise, in 1997, the National Health & Medical Research Council in Australia was found guilty by a federal court judge of acting improperly in preparing its draft report on passive smoking because it didn't consider all the relevant scientific evidence and submissions.

If that wasn't damning enough, in March 1998 the World Health Organisation was forced to admit that the results of a seven-year study (the largest of its kind) into the link between passive smoking and lung cancer were not 'statistically significant'. This is because the risk of a non-smoker getting lung cancer has been estimated at 0.01%. According to WHO, non-smokers are subjecting themselves to an increased risk of 16-17% if they consistently breathe other people's tobacco smoke. This may sound alarming, but an increase of 16-17% on 0.01 is so small that, in most people's eyes, it is no risk at all.

Case against passive smoking rests on an absurdity

Writing in the Daily Telegraph (24 March 1998), medical editor Dr James Le Fanu replied to claims that he had misled readers about the WHO study by pointing out that the case against passive smoking rests on an absurdity (ie 'that it allegedly causes a type of cancer in non-smokers, adenocarcinoma, known not to be related to smoking'). Referring to an editorial on ETS in The Lancet that identified 'a special risk with adenocarcinoma in contrast to the squamous cancers of the airways seen most often in active smokers', Le Fanu wrote, 'Passive smoking cannot conceivably cause lung cancer.'

A further critique of WHO's ETS study, which appeared in the Economist (15 March 1998), pointed out that, 'It is dangerous to become involved in campaigns that are not solidly based on scientific evidence' and added: 'Although passive smoking is unpleasant and irritating for non-smokers, that alone cannot justify banning it in public places.'

A year later, in July 1999, in its draft Approved Code of Practice on Smoking at Work, the United Kingdom's Health and Safety Commission declared that, 'Proving beyond reasonable doubt that passive smoking ... was a risk to health is likely to be very difficult, given the state of the scientific evidence.' Interestingly, the UK Government has yet to implement the ACoP, which may have something to do with the lack of conclusive evidence about passive smoking and ill health.

Greater London Assembly report

Worse was to follow for anti-smoking campaigners. In April 2002, following an exhaustive six-month investigation during which written and oral evidence was supplied by organisations including ASH, Cancer Research UK and FOREST, the Greater London Assembly Investigative Committee on Smoking in Public Places declined to recommend ANY further restrictions on smoking in public places, stating very clearly that it is not easy to prove a link between passive smoking and lung cancer.

As joint author of the report, Angie Bray put on record her opposition to a total ban on smoking in public places in a letter to the Daily Telegraph (5 July 2003). According to Bray, 'The assembly spent six months investigating whether a smoking ban should be imposed in public places in London. After taking evidence from all sides, including health experts, it was decided that the evidence gathered did not justify a total smoking ban.'

British Medical Journal report

Most recently of all, an explosive new study that seriously questions the impact of environmental tobacco smoke on health was published by the British Medical Journal (16 May 2003). According to the study, one of the largest of its kind, the link between environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed.

The analysis, by James Enstrom of the University of California, Los Angeles and Geoffrey Kabat of New Rochelle, New York, involved 118,094 California adults enrolled in the
American Cancer Society cancer prevention study in 1959, who were followed until 1998. Particular focus was on the 35,561 never smokers who had a spouse in the study with known smoking habits.

The authors found that exposure to environmental tobacco smoke, as estimated by smoking in spouses, was not significantly associated with death from coronary heart disease or lung cancer at any time or at any level of exposure. These findings, say the authors, suggest that environmental tobacco smoke could not plausibly cause a 30% increased risk of coronary heart disease, as is generally believed, although a small effect cannot be ruled out.

No clear connection

Perhaps admitting defeat on the link between ETS and lung cancer, the anti-smokers now argue that passive smoking is responsible for a whole range of other problems, including the rising number of asthmatics. Incredibly, smoking is being held responsible for the increased prevalence of a range of illnesses over a period when the prevalence of smoking has dramatically declined and the places where people smoke have been increasingly restricted.

The simple fact is that in terms of establishing a clear causal connection between exposure to ETS and illness in non-smokers, the anti-smoking industry has continually failed to prove its case.

Neddless to say. none of the above has deterred the anti-smoking lobby. Indeed, the British Medical Association, aided and abetted by ASH, is now claiming (November 2002) that 'There is no safe level of environmental tobacco smoke.'

While it is perfectly legitimate for people to express a dislike of the smell of tobacco smoke, the distortion of scientific, statistical, methodological, and research procedure to provide a medical justification for banning smoking in public places is not acceptable, least of all as a pretext for removing the rights of 13 million British adults.
 

cianocarroll125

Fireblade Convert
Its really pi$$ed Wolfie off this hasn't it mate!! Think I'll sit back and enjoy it now I started it all off! p0pc0rn41

b0x2

:neenaw:
 

Wolfie

Is a lunp
cianocarroll125 said:
Its really pi$$ed Wolfie off this hasn't it mate!! Think I'll sit back and enjoy it now I started it all off! p0pc0rn41

b0x2

:neenaw:


nah not I, i am enjoying this. :lol: :lol: :lol:



just waitng to see what else people bring up so i can try and come back at them.
 

Duck n Dive

Rebel without a clue ...
Club Sponsor
An ammendment to the bill now means that the "glorification" of smoking is also banned.

Punishment for breaking this law is to act as broker for "bike buying revolving door rhino"

h1d1ng2
 
A

Aidey

Guest
Wolfie mate, youre too late with all the evidence. PEOPLE NOW BELIEVE THAT PASSIVE SMOKING KILLS so it doesnt matter any more what the scientific evidence says.

As to the ban itself, I dont see why pubs couldnt just choose to be non-smoking if that is what they wanted. Put a sign up outside stating that this is a"smoking/non-smoking" pub and customers could make their own choice.

Example, a pub I go to in Bath consists mainly of smokers, about 95%. All the barstaff smoke. To my knowledge nobody has ever complained about the smoke, even though the air is thick with it. Now as a result of this ban, a pub which is full of smokers is going to have to change. Why on earth could it just not have been designated a smoking pub? :dunno:
:
PS I do not and never have smoked.
 

Wolfie

Is a lunp
Aidey said:
Wolfie mate, youre too late with all the evidence. PEOPLE NOW BELIEVE THAT PASSIVE SMOKING KILLS so it doesnt matter any more what the scientific evidence says.

As to the ban itself, I dont see why pubs couldnt just choose to be non-smoking if that is what they wanted. Put a sign up outside stating that this is a"smoking/non-smoking" pub and customers could make their own choice.

Example, a pub I go to in Bath consists mainly of smokers, about 95%. All the barstaff smoke. To my knowledge nobody has ever complained about the smoke, even though the air is thick with it. Now as a result of this ban, a pub which is full of smokers is going to have to change. Why on earth could it just not have been designated a smoking pub? :dunno:
:
PS I do not and never have smoked.



i know that i am too late, but it is never too late if you see my meaning.

My local is a bikers pub, food is what the curry house next door or the chinkeys across the road does, my pub has beer spilt on the floor, smoke hangs from the ceilings and we rock all feckin night long, but now it will have to change feck me they might even have to put some feckin seats back in for the women to sit down on!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
A

Aidey

Guest
You will enjoy this one.

Apparently, having decided to ban smoking on the grounds of it being so dangerous to health (and safety) I read in todays paper that the chancellor is now thinking of extending the introduction of the ban by a further year to give businesses a chance to adjust. Well, is it dangerous or not? Or is just thinking about the potential loss of VAT and tax that may go with this ban?
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
have a session on a rolling road; should get rid of any smoke issues unless your engine is completely knackered.
 

Wolfie

Is a lunp
andybird said:
have a session on a rolling road; should get rid of any smoke issues unless your engine is completely knackered.



sorry no can do breathing problems .


fumes cause more health damage than smoking does.
 

Duck n Dive

Rebel without a clue ...
Club Sponsor
derek kelly said:
Prisons are banning prisoners from smoking except in their own cells.
Errr... whose cells exactly??...... thought they belong to Her Maj ??
 

Duck n Dive

Rebel without a clue ...
Club Sponsor
I think the fact the the two faced ~#?"&^$'s have exempted the house of commons bars really stinks......... why can't they just hang around the door like everyone else...
 
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