• Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )

This does not sound like a free society to me....

Wolfie

Is a lunp
You may have heard that legislation creating compulsory ID Cards passed
a crucial stage in the House of Commons. You may feel that ID cards are
not something to worry about, since we already have Photo ID for our
Passport and Driving License and an ID Card will be no different to
that. What you have not been told is the full scope of this proposed ID
Card, and what it will mean to you personally.

The proposed ID Card will be different from any card you now hold. It
will be connected to a database called the NIR, (National Identity
Register)., where all of your personal details will be stored. This
will include the unique number that will be issued to you, your
fingerprints, a scan of the back of your eye, and your photograph. Your
name, address and date of birth will also obviously be stored there.
There will be spaces on this database for your religion, residence
status, and many other private and personal facts about you. There is
unlimited space for every other details of your life on the NIR
database, which can be expanded by the Government with or without
further Acts of Parliament.

By itself, you might think that this register is harmless, but you would
be wrong to come to this inclusion. This new card will be used to check
your identity against your entry in the register in real time, whenever
you present it to 'prove who you are'.

Every place that sells alcohol or cigarettes, every post office, every
pharmacy, and every Bank will have an NIR Card Terminal, (very much
like the Chip and Pin Readers that are everywhere now) into which your
card can be 'swiped' to check your identity. Each time this happens, a
record is made at the NIR of the time and place that the Card was
presented. This means for example, that there will be a government
record of every time you withdraw more than 99 at your branch of Nat
West, who now demand ID for these transactions. Every time you have to
prove that you are over 18, your card will be swiped, and a record made
at the NIR. Restaurants and off licenses will demand that your card is
swiped so that each receipt shows that they sold alcohol to someone over
18, and that this was proved by the access to the NIR, indemnifying them
from prosecution.

Private businesses are going to be given access to the NIR Database. If
you
want to apply for a job, you will have to present your card for a swipe.

If you want to apply for a London Underground Oyster Card, or a
supermarket loyalty card, or a driving license you will have to present
your ID Card for a swipe. The same goes for getting a telephone line or
a mobile phone or an internet account.

Oyster, DVLA, BT and Nectar (for example) all run very detailed
databases of their own. They will be allowed access to the NIR, just as
every other business will be. This means that each of these entities
will be able to store your unique number in their database, and place
all your travel, phone records, driving activities and detailed shopping
habits under your unique NIR number.

These databases, which can easily fit on a storage device the size of
your hand, will be sold to third parties either legally or illegally. It
will then be possible for a non governmental entity to create a detailed
dossier of all your activities. Certainly, the government will have
clandestine access to all of them, meaning that they will have a
complete record of all your movements, from how much and when you
withdraw from your bank account to what medications you are taking, down
to the level of what sort of bread you eat - all accessible via a single
unique number in a central database.

This is quite a significant leap from a simple ID Card that shows your
name and face.

Most people do not know that this is the true character and scope of the
proposed ID Card. Whenever the details of how it will work are
explained to them, they quickly change from being ambivalent towards it.

The Government is going to compel you to enter your details into the NIR
and to carry this card. If you and your children want to obtain or
renew your passports, you will be forced to have your fingerprints taken
and your eyes scanned for the NIR, and an ID Card will be issued to you
whether you want one or not. If you refuse to be fingerprinted and eye
scanned, you will not
be able to get a passport. Your ID Card will, just like your passport,
not
be your property. The Home Secretary will have the right to revoke or
suspend your ID at any time, meaning that you will not be able to
withdraw money from your Bank Account, for example, or do anything that
requires you to present your government issued ID Card.

The arguments that have been put forwarded in favor of ID Cards can be
easily disproved. ID Cards will not stop terrorists; every Spaniard has
a compulsory ID Card as did the Madrid Bombers. ID Cards will not
'eliminate benefit fraud', which in any case, is small compared to the
astronomical cost of this proposal, which will be measured in billions
according to the LSE. This scheme exists solely to exert total
surveillance and control over the ordinary free British Citizen, and it
will line the pockets of the companies that will create the computer
systems at the expense of your freedom, privacy and money.

If you did not know the full scope of the proposed ID Card Scheme before
and you are as unsettled as I am at what it really means to you, to this
country and its way of life, I urge you to email or photocopy this and
give it to your friends and colleagues. The Bill has proceeded to this
stage due to the lack of accurate and complete information on this
proposal being made public. Hand to hand, we can inform the entire
nation if everyone who receives this passes it on.
Please make sure you do this.
 

Cyclops

Registered User
Wolfie said:
You may have heard that legislation creating compulsory ID Cards passed
a crucial stage in the House of Commons. You may feel that ID cards are
not something to worry about, since we already have Photo ID for our
Passport and Driving License and an ID Card will be no different to
that. What you have not been told is the full scope of this proposed ID
Card, and what it will mean to you personally.

The proposed ID Card will be different from any card you now hold. It
will be connected to a database called the NIR, (National Identity
Register)., where all of your personal details will be stored. This
will include the unique number that will be issued to you, your
fingerprints, a scan of the back of your eye, and your photograph. Your
name, address and date of birth will also obviously be stored there.
There will be spaces on this database for your religion, residence
status, and many other private and personal facts about you. There is
unlimited space for every other details of your life on the NIR
database, which can be expanded by the Government with or without
further Acts of Parliament.

By itself, you might think that this register is harmless, but you would
be wrong to come to this inclusion. This new card will be used to check
your identity against your entry in the register in real time, whenever
you present it to 'prove who you are'.

Every place that sells alcohol or cigarettes, every post office, every
pharmacy, and every Bank will have an NIR Card Terminal, (very much
like the Chip and Pin Readers that are everywhere now) into which your
card can be 'swiped' to check your identity. Each time this happens, a
record is made at the NIR of the time and place that the Card was
presented. This means for example, that there will be a government
record of every time you withdraw more than 99 at your branch of Nat
West, who now demand ID for these transactions. Every time you have to
prove that you are over 18, your card will be swiped, and a record made
at the NIR. Restaurants and off licenses will demand that your card is
swiped so that each receipt shows that they sold alcohol to someone over
18, and that this was proved by the access to the NIR, indemnifying them
from prosecution.

Private businesses are going to be given access to the NIR Database. If
you
want to apply for a job, you will have to present your card for a swipe.

If you want to apply for a London Underground Oyster Card, or a
supermarket loyalty card, or a driving license you will have to present
your ID Card for a swipe. The same goes for getting a telephone line or
a mobile phone or an internet account.

Oyster, DVLA, BT and Nectar (for example) all run very detailed
databases of their own. They will be allowed access to the NIR, just as
every other business will be. This means that each of these entities
will be able to store your unique number in their database, and place
all your travel, phone records, driving activities and detailed shopping
habits under your unique NIR number.

These databases, which can easily fit on a storage device the size of
your hand, will be sold to third parties either legally or illegally. It
will then be possible for a non governmental entity to create a detailed
dossier of all your activities. Certainly, the government will have
clandestine access to all of them, meaning that they will have a
complete record of all your movements, from how much and when you
withdraw from your bank account to what medications you are taking, down
to the level of what sort of bread you eat - all accessible via a single
unique number in a central database.

This is quite a significant leap from a simple ID Card that shows your
name and face.

Most people do not know that this is the true character and scope of the
proposed ID Card. Whenever the details of how it will work are
explained to them, they quickly change from being ambivalent towards it.

The Government is going to compel you to enter your details into the NIR
and to carry this card. If you and your children want to obtain or
renew your passports, you will be forced to have your fingerprints taken
and your eyes scanned for the NIR, and an ID Card will be issued to you
whether you want one or not. If you refuse to be fingerprinted and eye
scanned, you will not
be able to get a passport. Your ID Card will, just like your passport,
not
be your property. The Home Secretary will have the right to revoke or
suspend your ID at any time, meaning that you will not be able to
withdraw money from your Bank Account, for example, or do anything that
requires you to present your government issued ID Card.

The arguments that have been put forwarded in favor of ID Cards can be
easily disproved. ID Cards will not stop terrorists; every Spaniard has
a compulsory ID Card as did the Madrid Bombers. ID Cards will not
'eliminate benefit fraud', which in any case, is small compared to the
astronomical cost of this proposal, which will be measured in billions
according to the LSE. This scheme exists solely to exert total
surveillance and control over the ordinary free British Citizen, and it
will line the pockets of the companies that will create the computer
systems at the expense of your freedom, privacy and money.

If you did not know the full scope of the proposed ID Card Scheme before
and you are as unsettled as I am at what it really means to you, to this
country and its way of life, I urge you to email or photocopy this and
give it to your friends and colleagues. The Bill has proceeded to this
stage due to the lack of accurate and complete information on this
proposal being made public. Hand to hand, we can inform the entire
nation if everyone who receives this passes it on.
Please make sure you do this.



Yeah whatever !!!!!! :rolleyes:
 
R

R2B2

Guest
Lol @ Silverfox! We've had a few political debates on here, good ones too, and I 'spect we'll have a few more!

All that sounds like a blend of scaremongering, speculation and exaggeration put together by one of the pressure groups.

What type of bread we're buying?..... nah, I don't reckon so!

Your bank won't disclose details of anybody's account transactions unless ordered to by a court of law.

The home office can withdraw your passport at any time now, so no different there.

I don't believe you won't be able withdraw cash from a your account without an ID card.

Complete record of all your movements? 65 million people? - Gross exaggeration!

Etc, etc, etc, etc. bl4hbl4h bl4hbl4h bl4hbl4h
 

Duck n Dive

Rebel without a clue ...
Club Sponsor
As for eye scans and fingerprints.... regardless of UK govt. if you want to visit the USA you'll have to agree to that anyway...... plus one of those new fangled electronic passports - don't agree - you don't get in.....You can only use the current ones for a short while longer!!


Oh wolfie.... you forgot to mention the embedded rif chips which will allow the current location of you're card (i.e. you) to be tracked....
 

silverfox.xx

quocunque jeceris stabit
Next we have a chip in you vehicle, satalite monitor and instant speeding tickets.... it will happen.. thank god I'm old and had some fun while I was younger... thand f-ck I survived.. I pity the poor bastards who are just coming into this world.sh1tehppns
 

Wolfie

Is a lunp
BraXX said:
The Matrix has catch ya


cant catch what they cant see.



Yeah whatever !!!!!!


chav!!!


Please, please, this is a bikers site, not a political site.


this is the coffee shop


All that sounds like a blend of scaremongering, speculation and exaggeration put together by one of the pressure groups.

What type of bread we're buying?..... nah, I don't reckon so!

Your bank won't disclose details of anybody's account transactions unless ordered to by a court of law.

The home office can withdraw your passport at any time now, so no different there.

I don't believe you won't be able withdraw cash from a your account without an ID card.

Complete record of all your movements? 65 million people? - Gross exaggeration!

Etc, etc, etc, etc.



normal response from you sir



As for eye scans and fingerprints.... regardless of UK govt. if you want to visit the USA you'll have to agree to that anyway...... plus one of those new fangled electronic passports - don't agree - you don't get in.....You can only use the current ones for a short while longer!!


Oh wolfie.... you forgot to mention the embedded rif chips which will allow the current location of you're card (i.e. you) to be tracked....!!





why would i want to go to hell?????



the chips were next.


Next we have a chip in you vehicle, satalite monitor and instant speeding tickets.... it will happen.. thank god I'm old and had some fun while I was younger... thand f-ck I survived.. I pity the poor bastards who are just coming into this world.


i agree it will happen




But it will be theirs to change.




why ???? why ours and theirs why not now and here, why cant we change it for their sakes, or has the program gained another victim.
 

Lebowski

Registered User
Whilst I would agree that some of that is scaremongering, why do we need ID cards? The government claimed it was to fight terrorism and when they realised it wouldn't help in the slightest, they then claimed it was to stop identity theft.

Can someone explain how making something more attractive to steal makes it less likely to be stolen?

They are spending vast amounts of our money on something that isn't needed, so why are they doing it?

Why do they want us to have it?

If it is not for dubious reasons that they wouldn't dare say, why do we need them?

As for the possibility to change it, hmmm? The last time something like this was overturned was when exactly?

I guess the people get what the people deserve though....
 
T

t.mac

Guest
but the "terrorists" and people coming into this country by illeagle means, wont have cards??
 

Duck n Dive

Rebel without a clue ...
Club Sponsor
wait for the "insert chips into all newborn"...... of course it will be for their own good to stop them being taken from hospitall without permission......
 

Allan

Registered User
Personally, I dont have a problem with any of this.

Why should I?.

What have I got to hide?

I do nothing wrong, okay I may speed ocassionaly, but on the whole I'm a law abiding person, so what have i got to hide?

If I have to present a card to prove who I am, good, it might stop some thiving git trying to get my goods etc.

So as far as I'm concerned, it will be a good thing.


Buzz
 
W

Wurley

Guest
If you've got any sort of card you can be traced, for example Tesco Card, not only can they trqce what you have spent they can trace where, when and what you purchased. Did you get there by car, how much fuel you purchased and how much your using, is it Diesel or petrol etc. etc. etc......

Go through you wallet/purse now and see what cards you've got.....Nectar....Blockbuster.....HMV.....Virgin.....Barclaycard......the list is endless they know what your buying,spending,watching eating, where you are, how you got there, how long you spent there and who you were with.....

If like me you've got nothing hide it won't keep you up at night.....

Wurley :neenaw:
 

Duck n Dive

Rebel without a clue ...
Club Sponsor
So...... you've got nothing to fear so don't object.....


The scrotes don't care cause they'll always have a way around it to continue with their illegal enterprises...........



So why are they needed, what are they for?

Oh and if you don't fear them 'cause you know and trust the laws makers and enforcers............................. what happens when both are changed into something you don't trust??


Power corrupts, absolute power...........
 
W

Wurley

Guest
The Spanish card may not have stopped the madrid bombers, but has it sopped the Jerez or Catalunya bombers :dunno:

Will the UK card stop the cardiff or edinburgh bombers :dunno:

No system will be failsafe, but if it makes it even a minor inconvenience to overcome that's better than nothing........isn't it :dunno:

Wurley :neenaw:
 

Cruser

Registered User
Allan said:
Personally, I dont have a problem with any of this.

Why should I?.

Because it's going to cost billions of pounds that could be better spent elsewhere?

Allan said:
What have I got to hide?

I do nothing wrong, okay I may speed ocassionaly, but on the whole I'm a law abiding person, so what have i got to hide?

If I have to present a card to prove who I am, good, it might stop some thiving git trying to get my goods etc.

You already have a photo driving licence that you are able to supply if required? Or a passport? Or a credit card with a signature strip? Etc etc. Why do we need another ID card that will cost us to purchase in the first place, and will be compulsory to carry?

I too have nothing to hide and am a law abiding citizen (like you, maybe I speed a bit h1d1ng2 ) so why should I have to carry something to prove who I am? I've done nothing wrong. Why can't I walk down the street without my wallet with a card in if I wish to? Isn't this a free society??

Allan said:
So as far as I'm concerned, it will be a good thing.


Buzz

Why is this a good thing? What benefit will it bring to us law abiding people?

Not picking on Allan's comments in particular, but these are the same arguments I've heard from others; "I've got nothing to hide" etc.

True, you haven't, but this country does not NEED an ID card at all, especially one that'll cost billions, will probably be full of fuck-ups like the passports were, will cost you and I a shit load of money to buy something that is compulsory to own and has the potential to be expanded into whatever 'they' want it to be.

Nah, I'm with Wilf on this one. d04l1ng
 
A

Aidey

Guest
If youve got nothing to hide youve got nothing to fear? Really?


What about those businessmen being extradited to the US over the Enron scandal, not because of fraud charges of which they are accused, but under anti-terrorism legislation? Of course, said Mr T Bliar, when it was passed in Parliament, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.
 

Lebowski

Registered User
And of course when they have all this information on us and we need these cards to do just about anything, of course nothing will go wrong with the computer system that holds all this info will it?

We won't suddenly be unable to prove who we are will we?

The government are so good at running large computer database systems, aren't they, look at the success of the Child Support Agency system.

:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Top