SPEED CAMERA EVIDENCE IN DOUBT

[Wolfie]

SPEED CAMERA EVIDENCE IN DOUBT, WARNS SAFE SPEED

We are hearing of dropped court cases all around the country concerning laser speed cameras in mobile vans. The
cases are being dropped when defendants exercise their legal rights by demanding to see the "traffic video", 7 days
before a court hearing.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed campaign said: "The rumours are that some of these traffic videos prove that the
equipment does not always record speeds correctly. We don't know of any other explanation for these mysterious
failures of the CPS to provide traffic videos when formally requested."

UK law, drafted in the interests of a fair trail, provides an opportunity for both sides to examine the evidence prior to trial
in a process known as "disclosure". Defendants are entitled to disclosure of evidence no later than 7 days before the
trial. Any evidence not so disclosed must should be excluded from consideration by the court. If a traffic video is not
disclosed, then it cannot be admitted as evidence and no corroborative evidence of the speed of the vehicle would be
available to the court.

Paul continues: "We strongly recommend that no one submits to a trial in one of these cases without proper advanced
disclosure of the video evidence.A short clip is not enough, the entire video comprises one "document" and defendants
are entitled to disclosure of the whole document."

These doubts about the legal evidence in speeding cases are centred around the "LTI 20/20" laser speed meter. Most, if
not all, mobile speed traps in the UK use this particular equipment. In a typical application the laser speed meter is linked
to video recording apparatus that records continuous video from a speed trapping session. The vehicles and their
number plates are recorded on the video, and the speed readings from the laser speed meter are superimposed on the
pictures. This means that the video is the main evidence of the speeding offence.

The LTI 20/20 has been criticized for spurious readings in other countries according to reports.


http://www.safespeed.org.uk

 

[mikew]

Now that's interesting ...

cos I was "done" apparently, on the A14 back in October last year, and I recieved the notification in Feb this year. One of the so called "Camera Safety Units" (strange title that, didn't know that cameras were dangerous ..... ) sent me a form asking for the driver details.

Now the date coincides with my son and I going to Stanstead to drop me off, but we can't remember who was driving. No really. we took it turns, sometimes he would drive and I'd bail out at the airport, sometimes I'd drive, and he'd kip on the way down.

Now I first complained about the long delay between the alleged offence date and the notification date, no avail. They said that they had contacted the vehicle owners (mines' a company motor) within the prescribed time, and they provided the po-lice with my details as the user of the vehicle.
Think about that for a moment. All you company car drivers who think they may have got nabbed, then waited 3-4 weeks and breathed a sigh of relief, you might have a surprise awaitin g you at some point in the future. In this case it was 4 1/2 months !before I knew anything about it.

So I wrote back saying basically what I said above about me and my son etc, and asked for a picture or some evidence to back up their allegation.

"Sorry Sir, we don't have any pictures, it's all on a video. You will have to come here and view it."

So far I have been unable to "find the time" to do this. Now I live about an hour from where this video is, so I phoned and asked could the chap give me a clue as in "is the driver wearing glasses?" the reply?

" Sorry, the video isn't that clear!" ok fookwits, where is your evidence then?

" It's your car, therefore you are responsible". er, no, sorry tis not my car, I have the use of it, and so do many other peeps.

So far things are at a stalemate, I can't be bothered to take a 1/2 day off work to go and see this "evidence", they are not prepared to send me a photo etc. I've given them my licence details, so I assume that now it will go to court, and then I will get to see this video I assume.

I wonder what will happen next?

 

[nitehawk]

Lti 20-20 accuracy

I may be going to court soon for a speeding offence where this device was used and I am sure that I was not going as fast as the photo said.

The Scamera Pratnershit refused to give me the video so my solicitor is now insisting upon it but from the photo alone, you can tell that there is something seriously amiss.

There is a big case being heard in Cardiff on the 22nd April where an expert will try to discredit the LTi 20-20 so the a55holes have a lot to lose as everyone will then contest their offence. I'll try and keep you posted as to the developments.

My advice, If you have the time and finances to contest a case where you honestly believe that you have done nothing wrong then fight it ! Don't let the bastards have an easy ride by intimidating you into submisssion.

Have a great week/end !

 

[Jaws]

Perhaps someone should mail the info in this thread to the News of the World.. They have an article today saying how deadly accurate the system is !!

 

[mikew]

UPDATE !!!!!!

So far things are at a stalemate, I can't be bothered to take a 1/2 day off work to go and see this "evidence", they are not prepared to send me a photo etc. I've given them my licence details, so I assume that now it will go to court, and then I will get to see this video I assume.

I wonder what will happen next?

The stalemate has been broken.

I was then summonsed to appear for failing to disclose the driver AND the speeding. OK, so we (ok, me) are now potentially looking at 2 offences each carrying a max of 6 points and a ?1000 fine. Or a ban in otherwords.

So having pleaded with the boss to let me go and view this truly terrible crime video, I managed to view the "evidence".

It lasted 3 seconds. :bang:
With the reflection of the sun on the windscreen, you cannot tell if ANYONE is driving! let alone me or my son.
It is a total blank windscreen. (George Bush and Ossie Bin Liner could have been shagging on the front seat and you would not have been able to see it! (not that you would want to of course)).
So I asked the orifice who was there ...
"OK, I'm stood next to the video, is that me driving?"
"er, dunno sir, can't tell from this video" said the po-lice orifice.
"Is that all the evidence for this offence?" I asked.
"Yeh, not much is it?" replies the c*ntstable.

So, given that the offence was now 7 months ago, the po-lice evidence is farcical to say the least, and I genuinely don't know who was actually driving the car at the time, I get the feeling I've been stiched up. The excuse the po-lice are using is that I should know who is driving my car at all times! :bang:

So how many of you keep accurate records of when you or anyone (i.e. family members, work colleagues, etc etc ) else is driving your vehicle?

Not many I bet.

My question to all you members of the Plod is, don't you need evidence to make a prosecution? If so, given that the po-lice evidence is useless, how come this prosecution is still going on?
Indeed, it's in court today, and I have been unable to attend.
I have sent in my paperwork, clearly stating I don't know who was driving, indicating that I have seen the video, and I am still unable to identify the driver, and neither was the officer who reviewed the video with me.

I'm guessing that they will ban me just out of sheer bloodymindedness.

Fuck 'em.












I'll just use me German licence instead. :f :f :f

 

[Supabird1100]

I'll just use me German licence instead.

Ain't that a bit risky Mike ??? If you get a tug and they run a name check, won't it show up that you're banned from driving ??? :dunno:

Let's hope it doesn't come to it M8......as you say, the evidence is questionable so a decent brief should get you off anyway. If they convict you, appeal !!!!!!!!

Good luck with it.

 

[mikew]

"decent brief?"

I'll just use me German licence instead.

Ain't that a bit risky Mike ??? If you get a tug and they run a name check, won't it show up that you're banned from driving ??? :dunno:

Let's hope it doesn't come to it M8......as you say, the evidence is questionable so a decent brief should get you off anyway. If they convict you, appeal !!!!!!!!

Good luck with it.

T'was in court today, so I had no time to sort anything out, couldn't even attend myself (although with hindsight, thats' probably a good thing, I tend to "lose it" if I think I'm getting stitched up, probably would have to add "Contempt of Court" or even "assualting a Magistrate" to the list of outstanding offences!).

Here's the strange thing, I won't know until Monday afternoon as to what the outcome was (the Clerk to the Magistrate said he'd call me), so as I'm working away from home at the moment, if they ban me (and that ban will start as of today), how the fook do I get home to feed the dog!!! Or even that later tonight I'm going to Stanstead (slowly ), I could be already banned and not officially know it, so therefore I'd be breaking the law again!!


fookity fook.

 

[Codbasher]

Just a thought, but was always under the impression that you were "Innocent until proven guilty". So wheres the proof that you were guilty, surely thats down to the police now to amass evidence against you? I mean the police would not convict you out of spite, would they?

 

[mikew]

that's what I thought ..... but

Just a thought, but was always under the impression that you were "Innocent until proven guilty". So wheres the proof that you were guilty, surely thats down to the police now to amass evidence against you? I mean the police would not convict you out of spite, would they?

The "proof" is that there is a video of my car travelling at whatever speed, therefore because I can't prove I wasn't driving, therefore in their eyes, I must have been.

"out of spite?" ..... probably.


Sucks dunnit?

 

[frenchuk]

Not sure of the law in UK... But is it the car guilty of the offence or the driver? If the driver is resonsible and not the car then surely they have to prove that you were the driver? Being the owner of it doesn't make you guilty does it? Or am I being stupid in assuming that this line of defence is bulletproof?

 

[columbus]

LTI 20/20

Here is something to think about.

Case in America involved one of these Lti 20/20 guns. Prosecution went through their evidence with one of the officers involved and the case was stopped for lunch before the defence started cross examiniation.

Everyone goes for lunch and the first back in court is the defence lawyer. Well the cop has told them all about how the gun works and being a nosey bugger the defence lawyer picks up the gun and starts pointing it at things one of the courtroom walls is moving at 19 mph.

Lawyer puts the gun down case starts again defence gets up, "officer in your opinion how fast is the wall moving" weird looks all round. Cop "it's not" defence "use the gun and tell the court how fast the wall is moving" cop " WTF 19 MPH"

Judge case dismissed.

This is not gossip but from an associate in good ole U.S. OF A.

 

[mikew]

don't know whether ....

this is a result or not !

3 points, ?60 fine, but not for speeding, just failure to disclose the driver, which I really don't know!

so perhaps I've be fined for having a bad memory. :bang: :bang: :bang:


and at the court, the magistrate actually asked to see the video and was told that it was inconclusive m'lud, as it didn't identify the driver ..... which was what the fookin case was all about in first place ferchrissakes.

 

[Steptoe]

Mikew

As you say, is it a result?

The law in this country is becomming an ass, how the hell can you get done for non-disclousure, when you have made every effort to do so?

I am getting paranoid about driving/riding/speed camara's as my licence is my living, I am self employed and could not earn without it.

WTF is going on :bang: :bang:

 

[RHINOS_BIG_BROTH]

SPEED TRAP BINOCULARS

YES THATS RIGHT THEY ARE BEING USED IN FRANCE AND THE PEOPLE ARE GETTING NICKED A HE TOLL BOXES BCOZ THE LIMIT IS 50KSH BUT ALSO IN BENDS WHERE THE COPPER IS STANDING ON THE EXIT OFA BEND WILL TRY TO GET PHOTO TAKEN BUT WHO EVER COMES TO FRANCE BE FOOKIN CAREFULL COZ ITS ON THE SPOT FINES WHEN I GET THE PHOTO WILL GET RHINO OR SILVERONE TO PUT IT