Interesting Some kakfa....

[Oldandbald]

2003 bike still on the original charging system. No idea what all the fuss is about. Poor maintenance if you ask me.

 

[DEG5Y]

I think it is likely that the slow speed meant the alternator wasn't turning fast enough consistently to match the load on the system. Did you turn lights and all electrical loads off to help the system? I can't see how an increased temperature would affect the alternator output. The continuous running of the fan would be putting a load on the system it wasn't designed to cope with.

I had an instance with the Crosstourer. It's a lump of a motor to start at the best of times but on this occasion it hadn't been used in a while. The day was roasting, I road half a mile to get petrol realised I hadn't picked up my plastic so started it again went home for my cards and started it again and went for fuel.
By now the engine was hot so when I tried to start it the fan was running and I couldn't stop it and the lights are on until you try and start it.
Not a cat in hells chance of getting it to start.
Walked home and went back later with a jump starter.

The fans are a big drain!

 

[Oldandbald]

Piss poor planning on your part. You can't blame the bike for that.

 

[andyBeaker]

2003 bike still on the original charging system. No idea what all the fuss is about. Poor maintenance if you ask me.

how do you maintain your charging system?

 

[Oldandbald]

Kiss goodnight and make sure its wrapped up warm.

 

[JayTee]

I think it is likely that the slow speed meant the alternator wasn't turning fast enough consistently to match the load on the system. Did you turn lights and all electrical loads off to help the system? I can't see how an increased temperature would affect the alternator output. The continuous running of the fan would be putting a load on the system it wasn't designed to cope with.

Yep! Switched off all lights revved the engine above 3500 constant for a while, didn’t make any difference.
I know heat increases resistance and resistance causes heat, a catch 22 situation, so I can only surmise the system was complaining somewhere, but as the temperature gauge dropped the voltage steadily climbed back to a steady 14.2 volts.
Surely if the fan was taking too much shouldn’t the reg/rec compensate and allow the genny to supply more or are you saying the genny is under rated as standard?
Either way the heat was definitely a deciding factor.

 

[Centaur]

The increased heat maybe affects the reg/rec which is probably already pretty hot…systemic failure

If it burned out the diodes the damage would be permanent and would not repair itself when the road was clear.

 

[Centaur]

Yep! Switched off all lights revved the engine above 3500 constant for a while, didn’t make any difference.
I know heat increases resistance and resistance causes heat, a catch 22 situation, so I can only surmise the system was complaining somewhere, but as the temperature gauge dropped the voltage steadily climbed back to a steady 14.2 volts.
Surely if the fan was taking too much shouldn’t the reg/rec compensate and allow the genny to supply more or are you saying the genny is under rated as standard?
Either way the heat was definitely a deciding factor.

In my opinion yes. This is why when the battery deteriorates with usage the load increases on the generator causing it to overheat and burn out the insulation on the windings. Failure usually takes the reg/rec with it. This is why I recommended years ago the fitment of a £1 chinese voltmeter, not to watch the voltage while the bike is running but to watch while using the starter, As the battery deteriorates the DROP in voltage while operating the starter increases thus indicating the long term health of the battery. This is the only way to know when to replace the battery before the alterrnator and the reg/rec burn out. INMHO. The bike was never designed to cope with satnav, heated gloves and vests, and phone chargers.

 

[andyBeaker]

If it burned out the diodes the damage would be permanent and would not repair itself when the road was clear.

Been there done that!!
if memory serves me correctly the main fuse blows when that happens So you ain’t going anywhere other than in the back of a recovery van

 

[Oldandbald]

Centaur might be on to something there. I have changed the battery regularly over the years as part of my routine maintenance so it would seem that might have helped the charging system not to blow up.

 

[Jaws]

Interestingly I noticed on the trip we had last week over to Belgium in the congestion around the M25 the traffic wasn’t moving much and the amount of heavy goods made filtering very slow, my fi ran hot with the fan on a lot of the time, the little 12 volt meter on the dash dropped dramatically down to below 12 volts only getting back to normal after a good run and the engine cooling down. This was repeated every time the situation occurred.
Can only put this down to excess heat causing resistance in the system and causing a downward spiral.
Didn’t know the carby rads were bigger.

As Bill said, proly just the fat it was running at less than 2k rpm

 

[JayTee]

As Bill said, proly just the fat it was running at less than 2k rpm

I thought that John untill we got the opportunity to ride a little faster, got the engine up to 3500 rpm and still no change untill the temp gauge started to fall and then a steady 14.2 volts, this was to be repeated throughout the trip.

 

[JayTee]

I’ve read some info online involving the use of series type reg/recs as opposed to mosfet types which I’m lead to believe dump excess charge as heat whereas the series type operate in a different manner. Not sure how.
Any body got any experience with this?

 

[Centaur]

Yes.

 

[Oldandbald]

Don't tell him Pike.

 

[JayTee]

Oooooooh…………go on ya tease.

 

[Centaur]

Mosfet dump excess power to earth through a heat sink.The faster the engine is turning over the more power it generates up to a limit so the more heat is being dumped through the heat sink. New series type were designed for off-road bikes and cut out excess power by shorting out up to two of the three phases from the alternator thereby saving on the power used to run the alternator. I read somewhere an alternator takes about one horsepower from the engine. I remember reading somewhere an off-road bike can be more difficult to kick over if it is in power saving mode but that was when they first came out. May well be bollox.

 

[ogr1]

Mosfet dump excess power to earth through a heat sink.The faster the engine is turning over the more power it generates up to a limit so the more heat is being dumped through the heat sink. New series type were designed for off-road bikes and cut out excess power by shorting out up to two of the three phases from the alternator thereby saving on the power used to run the alternator. I read somewhere an alternator takes about one horsepower from the engine. I remember reading somewhere an off-road bike can be more difficult to kick over if it is in power saving mode but that was when they first came out. May well be bollox.

I'll stick to the mosfet on the carby thanks. There's no way I'm dumping heat from the sink to me bollox.

 

[JayTee]

Mosfet dump excess power to earth through a heat sink.The faster the engine is turning over the more power it generates up to a limit so the more heat is being dumped through the heat sink. New series type were designed for off-road bikes and cut out excess power by shorting out up to two of the three phases from the alternator thereby saving on the power used to run the alternator. I read somewhere an alternator takes about one horsepower from the engine. I remember reading somewhere an off-road bike can be more difficult to kick over if it is in power saving mode but that was when they first came out. May well be bollox.

So am I right in thinking the heat won’t be generated so the the cycle of heat/resistance is no longer a problem, also are there any long term consequences to the shorting process you mention.
Forgive me for appearing a bit thick Bill but primarily I’m a nuts and bolts man electrics are the work of beelzebub as far as I’m concerned, but from what you’re saying it may be a solution to what seems to be an endemic problem with the Bird.
What do you think?

 

[JayTee]

I'll stick to the mosfet on the carby thanks. There's no way I'm dumping heat from the sink to me bollox.

We know you prefer the suction on the carby ya kinky bstd .