Should I Sign This?

[Duck n Dive]

I'd be interested in folks views!

I am being required by my boss to sign a document (I'm currently declining to do so) - explanation below.

In work part of what I do requires me to act under the provisions of various licences from Natural England.

This is because I can be required to take actions which would be unlawful.
Should I breach any licence conditions I could be prosecuted by Natural England or the police .

That requirement has always been here and I accept the consequences that I may face prosecution if I breach license terms.


There is a general Class Licence (not the normal General Class Licence, this one is specific for Aerodromes) which is held by my boss as the named person.
There are some other more specific ones where I am named.

The personal ones are issued directly to me.

The Class Licence is issued to my boss and I am given a copy (which I sign for) as there us more than one of us who act on the authority of that Licence.

This year my new boss has taken the Natural England Licence and incorporated it into his own document but has added various bits which are not parts of the Natural England Class Licence.

One of the sections is titled "Indemnity " and includes the following (the registered person is my line manager/employer):



"You shall indemnify the registered person in full against all liabilities, costs, expenses, damages and losses (including but not limited to any direct indirect or consequential losses, loss of profit, loss of reputation, and all interest, penalties and legal costs (calculated on a full indemnity basis) and all other professional costs and expenses suffered or incurred by the Registered Person arising out of or in connection with your breach of any of the terms of the Licence or this letter."

 

[Robbi]

Not a chance.

Are you in a union.?

 

[Oldandbald]

Yes go ahead and sign it and I'll take you straight to your padded cell for a nice lie down.

 

[Duck n Dive]

Not a chance.

Are you in a union.?

Yes, I've asked that they provide legal advice.

Shop steward says he sees no problem with it !!!!

 

[Malone]

Do not sign anything that requires you to do something unlawful. I would strongly suggest you have a word with CAB and get their feedback on it.

 

[Duck n Dive]

I can't believe some colleagues have signed it.

My reading is it leaves me liable without limit for everything.

When I raised it yesterday, colleagues said they signed it without reading as they though they were just signing to acknowledge they had a copy of the licence...

 

[Duck n Dive]

Do not sign anything that requires you to do something unlawful. I would strongly suggest you have a word with CAB and get their feedback on it.

The licence means the actions are lawful.

The problem is that should I make an error and breach the licence in error (say) I know and have always accepted Natural England/Police may prosecute me.

My problem with this is I'm accepting all my bosses costs/charges/claim for reputational damage etc without limit.

 

[jerryt]

Seek legal advice! No brainer!

 

[Squag1]

Looks like an arse covering move.
Pass the blame.

 

[Robbi]

Yes, I've asked that they provide legal advice.

Shop steward says he sees no problem with it !!!!

It would appear to me that he is trying to unload and responsibility for actions / work directed by himself ( your boss ) on to you.
Surely you are working under his "instruction, guidance and leadership" so he must be responsible for his "instruction, guidance and leadership" descisions.

 

[derek kelly]

Typical of a “cover my own arse & f@ck you” boss, speak to your union rep & ask for a Solicitor’s appointment quoting “union law” this entitles you to a five minute appointment “often you will get longer if the Solicitor sees £ signs” this will not cost you anything, I have used the “union law” appointments a few times & it doesn’t have to be work related.

 

[DEG5Y]

This is because I can be required to take actions which would be unlawful.
Should I breach any licence conditions I could be prosecuted by Natural England or the police .

How can you be put into such a position by the people you work for?

"You shall indemnify the registered person in full against all liabilities, costs, expenses, damages and losses (including but not limited to any direct indirect or consequential losses, loss of profit, loss of reputation, and all interest, penalties and legal costs (calculated on a full indemnity basis) and all other professional costs and expenses suffered or incurred by the Registered Person arising out of or in connection with your breach of any of the terms of the Licence or this letter."

Should you be forced to sign it, then for me, that last sentence tells me not to do anything without it being in some form of written instruction (that can be saved) from your boss.
Stop thinking for yourself.

 

[Robbi]

The licence means the actions are lawful.

The problem is that should I make an error and breach the licence in error (say) I know and have always accepted Natural England/Police may prosecute me.

My problem with this is I'm accepting all my bosses costs/charges/claim for reputational damage etc without limit.

Genuinely do not sign this without legal / union representation in writing.

 

[andyBeaker]

To give a bit of context around this - this was one of the incidents caused by Duck n Dive that was discussed at his last performance review

 

[Duck n Dive]

Something very similar really did nearly happen

 

[jerryt]

Years ago I worked at Manchester airport when one day I was having lunch overlooking the gates when a Transit box van drove behind a plane that was on push back! The rear of the plane t-boned the van and rolled it on its side! As the van had large sliding doors the driver fell out and was trapped by his arm under the van! About 6 men where sacked as they should have been making it safe for the plane to reverse! The van driver had a broken arm and was also sacked!

 

[slim63]

I am not sure if I am reading it right so please correct me if I am wrong

You job requires you to break the law in some circumstances that is understood and you accept that ?

Your new boss has suddenly clicked that if you do break the law as required he may be held responsible as well ?

Absolutely sounds like an arse covering exercise by your boss to be honest

Obviously you know the industry far better than us so you will know what the likelyhood of being prosecuted is but personally i wouldn't sign that for a years pay in cash tax free

 

[Duck n Dive]

Slim, more or less just that.

However, under vicarious liability, as an employee as long as my activities (legal or otherwise) are in the course of my job then the employer is liable (of course if I break the law I can always be personally prosecuted).

There are very few (almost none) exceptions to vicarious liability.

This year, for the first time, my (new to post) boss has sent out a document he requires me to sign.
There is also another paragraph that explicitly makes me personally responsible for any fines incurred.

For the last umpteen years none of this has been required. I can well see that he's trying to cover himself.

I'm gobsmacked that most of my colleagues have already signed it without reading it
I've publicised my concerns among my colleagues prompting them to look at it.

I'm now being asked by them how they rescind it!!

 

[Squag1]

How can anyone be required to break the law in a job ?????

 

[andyBeaker]

How can anyone be required to break the law in a job ?????

Bank robbers?