Pensions

[Aidey]

Ive been listening to the news over the last few days about pensions and the Turner report.

The only certainty so far is that it is going to cost us all more money.

Am I wrong in thinking that government already extracts 11% in NI from our paypackets to pay for.....



pensions?


Now, if I didnt have to by law pay that 11% I am sure I could take it somewhere else and build up a decent pension pot. What they are really saying is that we will all have to pay over and above that because they have created a fucked up system which they now regard as general taxation. However if you are an MP, you will still be able to vote for your own pension increase.

I tell you, one day it is going to come to this country




REVOLUTION

 

[SILVERONE]

What Worries Me Is

If we're lucky enough to see 68, who's going to employ us all :dunno:
surely B&Q can't take us all on :violin:

 

[roXXo]

Very complicated issues and there is no easy answer Aidey

Birth rate down + Folks living longer means that there are fewer producers to meet the needs of the none producers.

The government only do what private pension companies do i.e. invest in the stock market + gilts, bonds etc.

It is no better trying to invest the 11% yourself to build up a decent pension pot. Professionals cannot get it right. The individual has even less chance.
I used to play the stock market in a small way. It looks easy but it isn't and even with a balanced risk portfolio, capital growth is extremely hard to come by.
There are no guaranteed returns.

Investment is a misleading word.
It is gambling.

One way to create a bigger pot is to put more in, either in a private pension fund or through taxation into a state fund. Either way you pay more but still, returns are not guranteed.

Years ago people's expectations were lower. Nowadays we want to maintain the same lifestyle in retirement as we do in work. It aint gonna happen.
It's not "our" fault or the government's. It is a fact of life in the free market, capitalist economy and there is no alternative.

 

[cianocarroll125]

The way I see it is this, the money that I get bottom line IS my wage, and its up to me to provide for myself and my family when (if) I get to 65. I dont trust anyone other than myself to make me money, so thats what I do. Yes, I invest in the stockmarket via unit trusts and I know that is giving someone else my money to gamble with, but what I put in there I know I stand to lose, and I'm ok with that.

As far as I'm concerned, I'll make my own pension provisions and IF I get anything on top of that from the Government, well thats a nice little bonus.

Fortunately being only 25 ( and reasonably sensible but lucky enough to have been dragged up well and taught to save! ) I have a fair few years left to add to the pot, but I really feel for people who have relied on the fact that they think they are going to get a decent handout after years of paying in.

As you say, its not an easy subject and its not nice to think about, but I fear there will be alot of very poor, older people in the not too distant future.

 

[roXXo]

cc125

You are switched on and understand the situation. For decades folk have relied on other groups to "look after them".
We the great unwashed have buried our heads in the sand re pensions. There has always been a balance to be struck between living for today and planning for the future. We all have different comfort levels but those who spend all today, without thought for their own future shouldn't moan too much when they find a short fall later on.
That does not include those unfortunate folk who's pension funds have been mismanaged or plundered by the unscrupulous.

 

[R2B2]

Am I wrong in thinking that government already extracts 11% in NI from our paypackets to pay for.....

pensions?

No, you're right, but it's not to pay for your pension..... it's to pay for the pensions retired folk are receiving now. Your pension will be paid by the younger generation working at that time. At least, that's how I understand it listening to all the talk recently.

Isn't part of the forthcoming problem down to the baby boom generation approaching retirement age, with a now much smaller workforce providing the pension fund? And people living longer in retirment?

As if that is not bad enough it's getting worse because the birth rate is continuing to fall.

 

[gerryc]

From what I can gather the douoble whammy of a falling birth rate and aging population is to blame and it is the current workforce that pay for the current pensioners.
The Scottish parliment have been going on about this for ages cause the our birth rate and population in general is falling faster than anywhere in the UK. The answer they came up with is to encourage immigration to fill jobs that are apparently not being filled by nationals.
I can see the logic in this however I find it hard to believe when there are so many people claiming benifits that are not filling these jobs.
If it is a case of these people not having the right experience surely it would make more economic sense to spend money on proper training than throwing money away every week on a benifit system that makes people less and less likely to get back to work.
Rant over

 

[BlackBirdBaz]

I understand its also got something to do with the working life period shifting.

When the current pension system was set up most people started work at 15 or 16, some even earlier so paid all the contirbutions needed by the time time reached pensionable age. Whats happening now is a greater % not starting work until 20+ due to further education / uni etc and still expecting a a state pension at 65. It makes sense I guess that the retirement age should be moved forward to compensate for this.

I would add however that those who are planning on retirement and only have the state pension to look forward to are gonna be in deep shit. Its never too late to start saving for your pension, fortunately my civil service pension has been going since I was 16 and its going to be all mine in around 8-12 years time.

If I live as long as my dad did then thats going to mean 20 years of biking c/o her majesty :bow:

 

[Centaur]

NI Rates 05/06

Nowt on first ?82 pw employee Then 11% up to ?630 pw and 1% above that. Employer 12.8% above ?94pw...no top limit. A lot of dosh but it also runs the NHS I believe. In the seventies the average man having started work at 15 retired at 65 and was dead by 70...5 years pension. There were also 14 peeps paying in for each person drawing. Each generation pays for the previous one. We have to break the cycle and get this generation not only to pay for the previous but save enough to pay for their own retirement. Not an easy task when peeps are living longer. usually nature sorts out what man can't.....a plague perhaps! The other big problem is that superann schemes like civil service,teachers and PRISON STAFF! are unfunded. The budget to run our education system is crippled by paying retired teacher's pensions. The contributions paid in go straight out to pay the peeps who have retired. The biggest part of the education budget is not salaries but pensions.......robbing Peter to pay Paul. This Government shagged the private pension sector by taxing dividens ...?5 billion per year in tax and by making the final salary schemes who carried healthy surpluses pay these surpluses back into the company so they would be taxed. Then when the stockmarket dropped like a stone over 3 years the value of these funds dropped dramatically so that many employers were forced to change the pension schemes to a type without a guarantee so the workers suffer. Labour???? uke: sorry folks .....but I feel better after that rant!!! ps you didn't have to read it

 

[gerryc]

Have been thinking about this a bit more. One of the things that really pisses me off about this whole not enough kids being born shit is that there is no encouragement for anyone to have kids these days. As a father of two young kids I earn a bloody good living but still can't aford to move to a bigger house to suit the size of my current family never mind having more kids. I get taxed at the higher rate and have always stated I don't mind paing tax but I'm failing to see what I get in return.
We've been considering moving abroad for some time because the quality of life elsewhere can be so much better and I might get rid of the feeling I'm being fleeced for tax every time i leave the house. From what I'm seeing its going to get worse in this country so I doubt i'm the only one thinking of leaving. If they seriously want to solve the declining birth rate they will need to provide more incentives for people to have kids and stay in this country.

 

[Wolfie]

give everybody a pill at the age of 68, unless they are paying for themselves,



job done all sorted what is next?????

 

[Centaur]

No I'm not going to bite

give everybody a pill at the age of 68, unless they are paying for themselves,



job done all sorted what is next?????

Fookin hard though!

 

[Wolfie]

nah cause most of those coming up to "the Age" would feck off somewhere else to live , so we dont have to pay for them.

 

[Gerrard]

Pensions - it's a mine field innit?
They want you to save but then tax you if you save too much!
As previous post have said - what's it got to do with having kids? I' m not quite sure on that one.
I think there is enough money to go round if it was dealt with fairly, but that's the problem, it's not.
In hospitals why pay ?25,000 ish to a bed manager when the Matron could do the same thing as they used to?
Why spend billions on tanks etc when we have Nato (and can't afford to pay the troups anyway)?
Why let high ranking officials like that Scottish Lord somebody spend ?6,500 a roll for wall paper in his office?
Why do we pay the DVLA for a totally unfair system of car tax when putting a tax on petrol would be by far the fairest?
Why give money to poor countries so the governing bodies can go and buy guns instead of food and infrastructure?
Then of course the old chestnut - why are we considered a soft touch by immigrants who flock here to be given everything (by comparison) when we have deserving cases of our own living in abject poverty.
On a slight slant, why do the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, look at Richard Bransons of the world, I did read somewhere that if he was to sell all his assets he would have enough money to spend at least 1/2 a millon pounds a day for the rest of his life and still not spend it all! ... if only!!
So I think there is enough to go round, it just wants sharing out a bit better.
To make the best of what I had I moved abroad for a better life so in fact you could say I am an economic migrant, and the old adage still holds good that if you want to invest money then bricks and mortar is a safe a bet as any house prices will always rise in the end. g0551p

Pensions :bang:

 

[Centaur]

Safer investing?

And this from a man who bought a KAWASAKI????























Hat coat gone!

 

[roXXo]

To make the best of what I had I moved abroad for a better life so in fact you could say I am an economic migrant, and the old adage still holds good that if you want to invest money then bricks and mortar is a safe a bet as any house prices will always rise in the end. g0551p

Pensions :bang:

Interesting.

What is the average wage in Spain?
Tax rates?
Pension benefits?
Unemployment levels?
How is the health service funded?
Is there free health care?
Crime situation? Basque separatist terrorists?
Do the Spanish object to foreigners taking their jobs, houses etc.?
Do the rich get richer and the poor poorer in Spain.
Are there not any rich entrepreneurs?
Are there not folk living in abject poverty?
Are there any downsides to living in Spain?
I work in the oil industry in the UK. Do you know what remuneration packages are like in Spain compared to here?
Is there a body like the HSE to help protect me while at work?
Do you know how many people are killed in Spanish industry compared to the UK?
Do you know how many folk are killed on the roads in Spain?
Are there any downsides to living in Spain?
Should I move there?
A lot of questions Graphite, I know, but Spain obviously "works" for you.
Does it "work" for the poor as well?
:beer:

 

[roXXo]

Centaur

Was it really so much better under the 18 years of Tory administration?
IMHO it wasn't.
:beer:

 

[shropslad]

Carry on working

I'll just carry on working & enjoying life,,,,,,, I love my job, ,,, started at 7.30am finished at 10.30am,today,, meet different people, work outside in the fresh air ,see the changing seasons,,,walk average 10,000 steps a week,, keeps me fit.
Who needs retirement ,,, carry on working,, after all seems to work for Parkinson

 

[Centaur]

True Roxxo

Centaur

Was it really so much better under the 18 years of Tory administration?
IMHO it wasn't.
:beer:

But the first and only administration to take any tax from pension funds was New Labour. Also Conservatives were happy to allow pension funds to have large surpluses. I don't support either party but there is no doubt that a lot of the current problems in the pensions "market" are directly down to the actions of the current Chancellor! One of the biggest problems for those who are contributing to a personal pension or retirement annuity is the necessity to buy an annuity with their fund. In 1970 a man of 65 with ?100000 in the pot would have had a guaranteedpension of about ?13000 pa. ?100000 now will get him about ?6000pa. Compulsary annuities are paid by buying gilts and with the current gilt rate...poverty rules OK! Only if the fund is fairly substantial are other options available and what working class person has a substantial fund. Probably the only real solution is to do away with all the superanns and company schemes and set up a government scheme into which all MUST contribute according to their income but from which all get the same pension which is adequate and dynamised according to increase in average wages. Anyone who wishes to save extra may do so but WITHOUT tax reliefs.

 

[roXXo]

I take your point Centaur.
Other criminals also plundered pension funds. Mr. Maxwell?

Shrops.
While you are fit and healthy, carry on.

Some people see retirement as a way out of the "rat race". It ain't.

Keep a positive attitude.