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Man down (almost)

Lebowski

Registered User
Got hit by a car on my way home tonight! I was filtering on a two lane slip road off the M2 and then moved into a space in the inside lane, then a multi tasker decided she would move into my lane. How I stayed upright I don't know, actually quite proud of myself!

She managed to smash my top fairing, indicator and bend my footrest hanger.

Thing is, and please excuse my ignorance, what happens next?

I'm 3rd party, f&t only. There are no witnesses, so my insurance helpline thinks it will go 50/50! So am I right in thinking that if I report this to my insurance company, I stand to lose my no claims and get loaded at renewal?

As I say, sorry for the ignorance, I've never had any one hit me before!
 

Stevebrooke

Knee up, wheel down
Club Sponsor
It depends on the cost of repairs, and also wether she tells her insurance. She may chase you for her repairs. Your insurer will cover the cost, but you can't claim on yours as you're TPFT. You only then need to declare the collision at renewal time, but not as a claim, thereby not affecting your NCD. In the same way you may declare a speeding fine.

You could chance it and do your own repairs and then claim in the small claims court.

Do you have that "uninsured loss" policy which might take it on, as I don't think your insurance will deal with your claim with you only having TPFT.

Did the "multitasking" involve the use of a mobile, as you may be able to get evidence to support your claim. eg call times.

There are lots of complications but if you think you have a good chance of winning then go for it.
 
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Lebowski

Registered User
Thanks SB.

No phone, no, I know this for sure because she borrowed my phone to call her boyfriend!!!! She is claiming for her damage, but whether that means she's going to admit liability and claim on hers, I don't know.

Guess I must still be a bit shocked, as I suppose I know the answer to my own question.

As I don't have a witness, why would my/her insurance believe me? Basically, I'm buggered (Bert, I don't know you, so won't say a thing!) I guess it all comes down to whether she will admit liability to her insurance.

Thing is, do I have to report it to my insurance company? As I did no wrong, why should she need to contact them?

Is there a legal requirement for me to tell them?
 

Stevebrooke

Knee up, wheel down
Club Sponsor
There's no legal requirement to tell your insurance. In fact, unless there's bodily injury there's not even a need to exchange insurance (I think). If she tells her insurance then they will contact yours to make their claim. But you shouldn't have your NCD affected as you are not making a claim. You will have to declare it at renewal and the only way you can be "at fault" is if she recovers ALL her costs from you (via your insurance). That is my understanding of it.

As I said above, you may be as well to hit her first with the small claims court, although you may well find yourself fighting her insurers in the court.
 

Duck n Dive

Rebel without a clue ...
Club Sponsor
If I've understood you're first post correctly at the time she hit you you were actually in the inside lane of a two lane carriageway. This means she moved from the overtaking/outside lane into the inside lane.

I would suggest that the fact you were filtering prior to the impact was irrelevent and should form no part of any statement.

You were in the left lane and she pulled into the lane, clearly she did not follow the highway code advice/instruction on how to change lane.

Has she given you her (or better still her her insurance) details?

I'll also add below details of a letter used by someone on the VFR forum when hit by someone turning right when thye were filtering. While it's not exactly what happened to you it may be that it gives you sme indication of a course to take in arguing you're side of it.

In your place I'd very much be ignoring the filtering prior to the incident as at the time of impact you were actually fully in the left hand lane (having moved into a space).



Anyway here's the letter:

This letter was posted on SV650.org by Lynw who was knocked off whilst filtering last year, after she sent this letter to her insurance company (who were recommending a 50/50) they settled 100% in her favour andd the other drivers insurance admitted liability with out a fight.

Lyns thread on the other forum suggests copying it and thats why I reproduc it here



Quote:
Originally Posted by lynw on sv650.org


Ref- Accident {date & time}

Further to our previous conversations I feel it may make matters clearer by reference to the Highway Code. I shall compare my road position and manoeuvre with that of the other driver. You will see it is abundantly clear that I was doing nothing wrong and that the driver is entirely to blame.

My Circumstances

I was slowly overtaking a stationary line of traffic.

I refer you to rule 71 of the Highway Code in the section "Rules for Motorcyclists" which reads as follows:

71: Manoeuvring. You should be aware of what is behind and to the sides before manoeuvring. Look behind you; use mirrors if they are fitted. When overtaking traffic queues look out for pedestrians crossing between vehicles and vehicles emerging from junctions.

A number of important points arise from this rule.

1. Note the use of the word WHEN as emphasised in the rule. It does not say "Do not overtake traffic queues" (or words to that effect), or suggest that it is an inappropriate course of action to take. It is clearly not a prohibitive instruction (see for example rule 74 which give prohibitive instructions). This clearly envisages that motorcyclists may, in the normal course of riding, overtake traffic queues.

2. I had already checked my mirrors and glanced behind to make sure nothing was overtaking the traffic queue already.

3. It was only the fact that I was progressing relatively slowly, in order to check for pedestrians who may be crossing between the vehicles making the accident much less serious than it would otherwise have been.

Before I move on, it is probably worth referring to the General rules for motorcyclists set out in rules 67 to 69. Again, I have reproduced these below.

67: On all journeys, the rider and pillion passenger on a motorcycle, scooter or moped MUST wear a protective helmet. Helmets MUST comply with the Regulations and they MUST be fastened securely. It is also advisable to wear eye protectors, which MUST comply with the Regulations. Consider wearing ear protection. Strong boots, gloves and suitable clothing may help to protect you if you fall off.

68: You MUST NOT carry more than one pillion passenger and he/she MUST sit astride the machine on a proper seat and should keep both feet on the footrests.

69: Daylight riding. Make yourself as visible as possible from the side as well as the front and rear. You could wear a white or brightly coloured helmet. Wear fluorescent clothing or strips. Dipped headlights, even in good daylight, may also make you more conspicuous.

You will note that:

1. I had complied with rule 67 by wearing protective clothing, which again helped reduce the seriousness of the accident.

2. I had complied with rule 68.

3. I had complied with rule 69 by using dipped headlights. I always ride with dipped headlights as it is considered good practice and safer to do so.

Accordingly, the only conclusion which may be drawn from the above is that I was riding my motorcycle safely and as envisaged by the Highway Code. I cannot, therefore, be to blame in any way for the accident.

Mr Xs Circumstances

I now turn to Mr Xs driving manoeuvre.

I shall compare his manoeuvre to two fairly similar manoeuvres; setting off from rest as he was stationary and making a right turn.

Setting Off From Rest

This is governed by rule 135 of the General Rules for Using the Road. This is reproduced below:

135: Before moving off you should

use all mirrors to check the road is clear

look round to check the blind spots (the areas you are unable to see in the mirrors)

signal if necessary before moving out

look round for a final check.

Move off only when it is safe to do so.




Check the blind spot before moving off

It is quite clear that Mr X failed to undertake all, or more likely any, of the requirements given that my body was level with his drivers door when he made the manoeuvre.

Turning Right

This is governed by rule 155 of the Road Junction section for Using the Road. This is reproduced below:

155: Well before you turn right you should:

use your mirrors to make sure you know the position and movement of traffic behind you

give a right-turn signal

take up a position just left of the middle of the road or in the space marked for traffic turning right

leave room for other vehicles to pass on the left, if possible.

The first point to note, however, is that Mr X was not turning right as I approached. He was stationary in a queue of traffic for a red light. Clearly, Mr X does not have the patience to wait for lights to change so decided to take a different route by turning right. He chose to make this decision as I was level with him.

Again, however, the emphasis of the first two requirements is on observation and signalling. As set out above, Mr X failed these on both counts.

Accordingly, the only verdict which can be reached from the above analysis of Mr Xs manoeuvre is that it was undertaken without sufficient care and attention to myself and other road users.

Conclusion

Mr X was stationary and I took all reasonable care to overtake a stationary vehicle. I checked before doing so, no right indicator on the car, no mirror checks carried out by Mr X, no wheel turns to indicate movement, and the car remained stationary so I proceeded to overtake.

Mr Xs lack of patience to wait in a queue to move clearly made him decide to take a different route. The issue here is he pulled out without mirror checks or signals whilst I was LEVEL with him by the drivers door. Not only is this driving without due care and attention, how Mr X could not HEAR my engine next to him, or be aware of movement right next to him is clearly indicative that he was not concentrating on what was going on around him.

Mr X is young and appears to only have had his licence a short while. But this does not excuse him for not making the proper checks - what if I were a pedestrian or pedal cyclist? More substantial injuries could have been caused by his inattention.

As shown above, I have followed the road rules clearly and exactly and am in no way responsible for this accident. If Mr X had made all the checks required as shown above or been paying attention he would have been aware of my presence and not moved until I had passed, in which case this accident would not have occurred.

I trust this is sufficient to pass to his insurers..

regards etc etc etc
 

Lebowski

Registered User
Thanks guys for that.

As far as I can see my best course of action is to get her full insurance details, get a quote from a dealer, then send a letter requesting payment from her insurers.

No doubt, she will deny responsibility, then as far as I can see, I will be stuffed because I cannot prove I didn't try to move into her lane. Her insurance will then get in touch with mine.

Then I suppose my insurance company ask for my story and it will go 50/50. Which I guess means me being penalised at renewal time. I take the point that I won't be claiming, but surely her claiming will effect my NCB?

Maybe I should go back to the scene tomorrow night with a big sign asking for witnesses and offering a reward!

The moral here is fall off, lay in the road and don't get up til the police arrive.

It never pays to be fair does it?
 

derek kelly

The Deli lama
Club Sponsor
Go to an independant garage, ask them to look at the damage, ask them how they think it was caused, you may be surprised by what a good mechanic can tell just by the direction/depth of scrapes etc,
I once went to the in laws in the car and parked at the top of their drive with the front towards the road, drove home parked in my drive, a while later wife says what have you done to the car, whan I looked there was a great big gouge down the passenger side, I told her I knew nothing about it, she didn't believe me, that night I went to work on the bike, wife phoned me up and said Steve (so called friend) had looked at the car and said I must have known about it. as Steve was a so called mechanic she believed him.
we booked the car in at a body shop to have the damage repaired, when the chap was looking at the damage I asked him how he thought it had happened, and to my great satisfaction he said "I can tell you exactly how it was done, the car was stationary and a truck has reversed into it and this gouge is caused by the rear footplate" he even pointed out where the point of impact was. so, much humble pie was eaten by wife.
 
B

BrisbaneBlackbird

Guest
Lebowski said:
Thanks guys for that.

No doubt, she will deny responsibility, then as far as I can see, I will be stuffed because I cannot prove I didn't try to move into her lane. Her insurance will then get in touch with mine.


Maybe I should go back to the scene tomorrow night with a big sign asking for witnesses and offering a reward!

It never pays to be fair does it?
Why were there no witnesses - you said just prior you were filtering? where all the cars go?

So what about using some forensics to prove where you were? Where on the car did you impact? did you get hit on the back end or front end of the bike - and was it the front end or rear end of the car?

cause you could argue if it was rear of car vs front of bike that it most definately was her moving into you:
a) she didn't check the blind spot and moved across onto you.
b) why on earth would a motorcyclist change lanes into a car - when if it was front of bike rear of car, the car would have been completely visible without even turning your head or checking mirror as it would have been mostly in front of you.

And i would definately use the previous posts argument logic - wearing a helmet, being attentive, maintaining a safe distance from the car in front? you were doing nothing wrong etc.

definately would keep filtering out of it - cause if the traffic wasn't stationary - you'd be in the poo wouldn't you?

my penny's worth
 

Centaur

Site Pedant
Club Sponsor
A warning

I believe you DO have to inform your insurance company about the incident. read your policy conditions. this is in case she claims against you. Remember it is no claims discount ...NOT no blame discount. In your case you cannot claim against your own insurance but if she were to SUCCESSFULLY claim against your insurance then your NCD would be affected. I assume you don't have legal assistance cover under your bike insurance but what about under your home policy? Some do. Good luck.
 

Lebowski

Registered User
Have informed the insurance company, even spoke to one of these claims lawyers. The lawyers aren't interested unless the claim involves personal injury amounting to more than ?3K.

So, based on what you've all said, I intend to draft out a 'report' on all the possible scenarios that could have happened. Me being in her lane, me changing lane into hers, and me being where I was, in the left hand lane. As the only evidence is the damage to my bike and her car, it should be possible to use this to prove how the accident occurred.

The damage to mine (this is a Blade remember, the Bird is coming tho..) consists of a cracked top fairing, going above and below the indicator, scratches to the mid and lower fairing and my footrest hanger is bent inwards. On her car, there is a dent just back from and below the n/s door mirror, from my indicator(?) and a dent lower down and further back on the same door, from my footrest. The interesting damage is my indicator, it is bent forwards. If I rode into her surely it would be backwards? If I had been behind her and rode into her as she turned, the damage would be at the front of my bike.

I will take the bike to a few different places and ask their opinions, record their names and status (i.e. mechanic or estimator), take detailed photos of my damage, even possible stage a shot from the inside of a car with my bike in the cars blindspot.

Thanks VERY much to everyone here, you've helped no end, given me some top ideas. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

The reason I couldn't get any witnesses is because it was the daily exodus from London, I was just a frustration on the way home, sad to say no one seems to want to stop and help these days. :violin:

So thanks again, top advice!

I will post again and let you know what occurs!
 
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