I fancy a 'project' Blackbird!

[ericonblackbird]

Well the project is underway. Late 53 plater on a CAT D and at the right price.

Initial strip down has revealed nothing unexpected ............... which is 'nice'.
Lots of fettling to be done which is even nicer.
................. and taking R2B2's advice everything is being labelled and photographed before removal.

 

[ericonblackbird]

All was going well, large pile of bits both 'new' and old ................. then visited my local hospital A&E last night to have them look at my hand which I 'bashed' a week ago whilst doing the brakes on my van.

Operation due to be carried out today to re-join the tendon for my index finger!
8 weeks in plaster coming up .................. ahhhhhg

 

[ericonblackbird]

Well I thought I should update this thread since I rode 'The Duck' out of the garage for the first time today.

I left this thread at the point that I was heading off to have my hand operated on! As the pickie shows the operation stopped two handed working for quite some time.
On stripping the bike I was surprised with the general level of general corrosion, OK I have seen worse fork lowers but oil cooler pipes and sump were unbelievable.
The fork conversion was fun to do and with a methodical approach relatively simple. That said I have been building 'projects' for most of my life!

The only part of the re-build that I wimped out on was the re-build and checking of the Kwak forks. I realised that I needed a few specialised tools that I don't have so I entrusted that to MH racing who are local to me and v good!

Apart from the front end conversion I have put an Ohlins shock on the rear but this has been modded with a longer bottom eye (7mm longer) to avoid using a spacer. I settled on this setting having used it for the last few years on my current BB (K-Tech shock with ride height adjuster). In fact I have set up 'The Duck' with the same geometry as my current BB.

The exhaust (and power commander) were forced on me (!) since the system on the write off was badly scratched, dented and holed - both the headers and cans.
Controls and bar position (as usual) proved 'interesting' and I ended up using early VFR right hand controls. This routed the throttle cables slightly lower thus avoiding the radial brake master cylinder ................... and allows me to choose to turn on the headlight or not.

Altogether an enjoyable 'project' which has not cost an arm and a leg - in fact it has cost no more than I would have to spend if I went out and bought a BB of a comperable age - and I do know that every bearing has been replaced and the brakes and suspension are in tip top condition.

Anyway I've added a few pickies, hope you enjoy the selection of large hammers and my spooky reflection in the mirror!

 

[karlos2000]

give that man a medal ........

you have nowt but my respect, A cracking job, and I really like the USD forks, in my opinion these should have been on the 'bird range from day 1. I only wish I had that level of commitment & ability :bow:


go get yourself a beer, with yer good hand ! :-0)

 

[morphgarth]

Good effort mate, you want to replace that left hand mirror tho', makes you look like Shrek!!!!!c7u8

 

[ericonblackbird]

Good effort mate, you want to replace that left hand mirror tho', makes you look like Shrek!!!!!c7u8

Perhaps I doc7u8

 

[R2B2]

Hey - good stuff Erc. Didn't tale you too long either.

I take it that's a 12R front wheel?

 

[Bluey]

Well done mate :bow:

 

[Duck n Dive]

:yo: :bow: ...........................

 

[ericonblackbird]

Thanks for the comments :yo:

I take it that's a 12R front wheel?

yes, but a later one which I used to be doubly safe since the very first ones had problems - recall for cracking or something similar. Fact is a BB wheel could be made to fit without too much machining, I might look into that in the future.

 

[morphgarth]

So.....are you gonna post a guide to fitting the USD front end? Did you have to do much to get the steering stem to fit etc??? Come on spill the beans!!

Cracking result though.

 

[ericonblackbird]

Not too many beans to spill - will do it if I can find enough suitable photos!

But to answer your immediate questions, the steering stem is a direct fit if you use ZX12R tapered bearings but a little work has to be done to the top 'seal' and stem nuts to get everything to line up correctly.
The lock stops on the btm yoke are in totally the wrong place - they foul the front subframe a large file works wonders here! Obviously new lock stops have to be positioned but this is best done on a dry build taking into account the greater dia of the forks and the plastic covers that protrude from the headstock. There is no need to loose any degree of lock though.
If you use the Kwak top Yoke (as I have done) the ignition / HISS is a difficult fit and the steering lock is too high to make correct contact with the headstock. I view this area as a 'work in progress'.
For info I investigted 954 Fireblade Yokes (nominally the correct dia for the Kwak forks) but there appears to be a 2mm discrepancy between Honda and Kawasaki measurements!
The one notable 'problem' is the bar positioning when using the Kwak top yoke since this has the bars bolted into it rather than clip ons attached to the forks. Standard ZX12 bars come too close to the top of the fairing and would jam your fingers when on full or near full lock. I have ended up lifting and slightly sweeping back the bars (my own preference).

As I said I will try to get round to a write up ............. but it will have to be after I have got my suspension settings finalised!

Regards
Pete

 

[morphgarth]

Cheers Pete, I just stripped down a GPZ1000RX that I had bought as a donor for my RX project. The guy had fitted ZZR front forks and wheels and to make the yokes fit the steering stem he had used big dollops of mig welding. Nice. Looked like Bird poo. Wouldn't have fancied riding that at speed on the autobahn!!!!!

 

[Wreckless]

Pete,

A couple of questions for you, if you don't mind:

Could you tell me which bore/ratio Brembo master cylinders you used on your project Blackbird?

Does the clutch one work as well as the original Honda item, and what did you do to bypass the clutch override switch?

How much more powerful, if at all, would you say that your new brakes are compared to the standard BB set-up?

Thanks in advance!

Wreckless.

 

[ericonblackbird]

Could you tell me which bore/ratio Brembo master cylinders you used on your project Blackbird?

19/18 for both front brakes and clutch. 2 separate lines to the front brakes and obviously 1 to the clutch!

Does the clutch one work as well as the original Honda item, and what did you do to bypass the clutch override switch?

Oh yes, probably more to do with the lever and its adjustability rather than the cylinder (never had an issue with the Honda item) but when coupled with a braided hose the clutch is good. For me this was a 'nice to have' since I damaged my left hand in an off some years ago and prolonged use of the clutch is not good. As for the switch, even though I have never knowingly used its 'facility' and previously said I wouldn't use it I decided to incorporate a new switch so I used a banjo with a brake light switch - which works perfectly.

How much more powerful, if at all, would you say that your new brakes are compared to the standard BB set-up?

That is a difficult question to answer since the front end has to work well in order to use the brakes and obviously I have de-linked so we are not comparing like with like. That said, the ZX12R front end works really well when set up and the brakes are more than adequate to get the rear wheel lifting
Don't think I have ever mentioned that I am using 320mm Brembo discs.

I know the adequacy of the rear brake when de-linking has been debated on these forums many times, personally I don't like the rear brake that I have ended up with (passed an MOT no probs) so having knocked up a few calcs for pressures, clamping forces and volume requirements (yes I'm an engineer so I do sums!) I will be changing the rear master cylinder to get the rear up to a nice balance with the fronts.

Thanks in advance!

.... not a problem, I really must get around to a writeup as suggested by morphgarth!

 

[Wreckless]

Thanks for that write up, very helpful indeed!

I was thinking of changing my forks, but instead opted for a Maxton conversion to the originals, which I think has made the forks just as good as my old bike's K-tech usd units. There are virtually no Honda parts left, apart from the stanchions and legs, and now they're fully adjustable.

I'm dumping the whole braking system, hence the question about m/c ratios. I have a pair of Spiegler 8-piston fronts waiting to go on! I've got a wee 32mm opposed piston brembo from a 900SS for the rear, and I'm going to use a 13mm m/c for that.

Spiegler recommend a 20mm m/c for their calipers, would you say that is a big enough difference over a 19mm to worry about?

W.

 

[ericonblackbird]

Spiegler recommend a 20mm m/c for their calipers, would you say that is a big enough difference over a 19mm to worry about?

Not easy to say without doing the sums.
A little background for general consumption!
Dropping the m/c dia could generally be said to be good since it increases the fluid pressure for a given input applied by your hand (lever ratio)..... Simply put (sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs!) the pressure generated at the master cylinder is equal to the amount of force from the brake lever divided by the area of the master cylinder piston.

So generally it may seem desirable to cut m/c dia but there is always compliance in systems (lines, seals callipers) and you need to ensure that you can supply enough fluid ............. which of course requires an increased dia m/c! So it is a balancing act between a small dia m/c to give good pressure and a large dia to meet fluid requirements.

But at the end of the day we want clamping force at the disc. This is simply the hydraulic pressure x effective piston cross sectional area, so more/larger pistons should be good! ................. but (there always is one in this case two!) increasing the piston cross sectional area/number ​

1. introduces more compliance (seals etc) which says a greater volume requirement. ​

2. larger piston x sectional area says a greater volume requirement​

which of course points to a larger dia m/c and therefore lower pressure which leads to lower clamping force!​

Think I have got that clear ................ I await comments otherwise!​

So to get back to the question ...................... and neatly sidestepping it!

Spiegler recommend a 20mm m/c for their calipers

they will have done their calcs to produce suitable clamping force at the disc, these will have taken into account fluid requirements etc etc, I would not deviate unless I knew what reserve factors had been built into the calcs and that a smaller dia m/c would give me similar.​

​

​

 

[Wreckless]

Thanks Pete! Things were much simpler when all that was readily available was 1/2 or 5/8's!

W.

 

[ericonblackbird]

You can never have enough front brake!

One of the results of a winter tart up.

 

[andyBeaker]

Nice:bow::bow:

Must have been a lot of work fitting the Blackbird body panels to a different model bike:-0):-0):-0):-0)