Driver Certificate of Professional Competence

[Vinterceptor]

At work this morning one of the lads was asked (by a foreman) to move a small wagon (7500kg gross) out of the way.
The lad has a class 2 license but does not have CPC. He jumped in and moved it 50 feet or so further down the yard out of the way....... job done@tu*

Or so we thought. It was soon brought to our attention that our newly appointed health and safety bloke had spotted this and photographed the lad in the wagon and is going to write up a report. He had a rant about if someone had been killed etc etc the firm's insurance wouldn't pay out a single penny for allowing such an illegal act to take place.

I have tried to find the answer but can't find the wood for the trees as there is so much written about this CPC.

Anyone know the legality of this particular incident? The lad in question is not employed as a driver.

 

[T.C]

Anyone know the legality of this particular incident? The lad in question is not employed as a driver.

I am out of touch with the requirements of CPC, but I have a friend who is a CPC instructor and I have to speak to him in a day or so and I will ask the question. What I do know based on what my buddy has told me is that there is a massive variation from company to company, and most helath and safety people within a firm are so incometent themselves most don't have a clue even though they would have you believe differently.

In regards to the "What If" scenario... The test is always was anyone reckless in what they did, were they unreasonable and did the person have a degree of competence?

It is all part of the risk assessment that has to be carried. If the answer to the first 2 is no and the last is a Yes, then it makes the case for the defence much stronger as there would be potentially no case to answer and the insurers could not wriggle out, on top of which health and safety might have difficulty in securing a conviction under HSE rules.

However, there is always a caveat. It all depends on the evidence.

Even though those involved may be competent, even though their actions may have been reasonable, it all comes down to what they actually did at the time to cause the death or injury, and in those cases, even with a PCP in place, a piece of paper is going to mean diddly squat.

If you actually look at HSE guidelines issued by the HSE, they are usually actually quite sensible and reasonable. It those HSE people at local level who think they are God Amighty (or at least can talk to God without pemission) who make up their own rules to justify their existance that tend to cause most problems.

 

[firephil]

CPC license....

Hi,
H&sS officers are sometimes special people that have special needs....read that how you will.Laymans simple terms..ok
CPC is required if you are driving a HGV on the highway ie public road for commercial reasons,for reward.Shunting vehicles in the of road Yard is not the Highway and CPC is not required.Other exempted Military,Fire,Blue light mob and Teresa Mays Stormtroopers!
You also need a VOSA Digi card (Tacho).Instead of sodding about with his Camera,may be should grow a pair,and check his regs.
Or may be offer to put on a Drivers CPC?
Drivers CPC is a good thing(personal view).
And BTW I hold a LGV C+e,CPC card,and ADR in 3 and 2.Ive had HGV Licence since 1988.regards.

 

[noobie]

I've shunted some big units in my time, never needed a licence to do it either, Alcohol maybe but never a licence. :-0)

 

[Vinterceptor]

I am out of touch with the requirements of CPC, but I have a friend who is a CPC instructor and I have to speak to him in a day or so and I will ask the question.

Cheers TC would appreciate that, and just to clarify.... there was no recklessness involved and the lad is competent when it comes to driving.

 

[ianrobbo1]

Private yard, tell Mr "Elf n safety" to do one, as long as the lad is competent to drive "Class 2 tells you he is" the vehicle on private land, even without a license as long as he has permission from a person in authority, IE the boss, there's sweet FA to report!!:wank: fucking bell ends make me sick most couldn't find their arses with both hands!!:wank:

CPC is a complete and utter waste of time, just another way for incompetent twats that don't want to drive any longer or have never driven to make a living, EEC bollox!!

 

[DEG5Y]

Sounds like a typical H&S person. Instead of stopping and questioning the action they'ed rather collect evidence to bollock after.

 

[Centaur]

At work this morning one of the lads was asked (by a foreman) to move a small wagon (7500kg gross) out of the way.
The lad has a class 2 license but does not have CPC. He jumped in and moved it 50 feet or so further down the yard out of the way....... job done@tu*

Or so we thought. It was soon brought to our attention that our newly appointed health and safety bloke had spotted this and photographed the lad in the wagon and is going to write up a report. He had a rant about if someone had been killed etc etc the firm's insurance wouldn't pay out a single penny for allowing such an illegal act to take place.

I have tried to find the answer but can't find the wood for the trees as there is so much written about this CPC.

Anyone know the legality of this particular incident? The lad in question is not employed as a driver.

None so righteous as the newly converted, Vint. :wank: Looking to make a name for himself. And he has.......ladyparts.

 

[CBRDEAN0]

I could be looking at this wrong - BUT

As the H&S guy has seen and willingly allowed this to happen whilst he photographed it rather than stepping in and stopping it

has he not aided someone to break a law he has created ?

Just a thought

 

[T.C]

Sorry for the delay, but I did promise I would speak to my buddy who trains CPC. He has been in the far north of Scotland for nearly a month and been uncontactable hence the delay in getting an answer.

Anyway.... In respect of your H & S Guy, as my mate says quote - "Tell him to go and fuck himself" - unquote

If the lad was moving the truck on a private yard, CPC is not required.

If he was moving the truck on a public road (subject to being licenced as he clearly is) regardless of whether the truck is carrying a load or not, then CPC is not required

The only time a CPC is required is if he was to in anyway assist in the loading or unloading of goods on the vehicle IF he was delivering on behalf of another firm or company.

I read your post directly so that it was straight from the source, and I have known ED for more years than I care to remember as a colleague and friend and I trust him implicitly on these matters.

So in short, NO CPC Required unless there is something in the operating procedures of your firm that require a CPC, but from a legality and injury point of view (which is the element I covered), your health and safety man is talking ut of his arse.

Hope that helps.

 

[noobie]

I used to be a fleet truck fitter and 30 trucks in the yard being pulled in and out of the garage for adaptions at all times meant an awful lot of shunting due to the high turn around.

Some weeks we would turn around 150 trucks and not one of the 4 people had anything above 7.5 tonne licence. 2 didn't even have a car licence but all were very competent in shunting around the yard in big units. They were assessed at the start of the employment and monitored for the first few weeks but again it was down to competency and not legislation.

As T.C. clarifies with more Panache, tell him to go fuck himself or at the very least go back to school. He seems to be confusing his opinion with actual standards.

 

[lumpy]

Sounds like a typical H&S person. Instead of stopping and questioning the action they'ed rather collect evidence to bollock after.

interesting streotypical comment borne out of dealing with H and S numpties I guess. Good and bad in all fields

 

[Vinterceptor]

Sorry for the delay, but I did promise I would speak to my buddy who trains CPC. He has been in the far north of Scotland for nearly a month and been uncontactable hence the delay in getting an answer.

Anyway.... In respect of your H & S Guy, as my mate says quote - "Tell him to go and fuck himself" - unquote

If the lad was moving the truck on a private yard, CPC is not required.

If he was moving the truck on a public road (subject to being licenced as he clearly is) regardless of whether the truck is carrying a load or not, then CPC is not required

The only time a CPC is required is if he was to in anyway assist in the loading or unloading of goods on the vehicle IF he was delivering on behalf of another firm or company.

I read your post directly so that it was straight from the source, and I have known ED for more years than I care to remember as a colleague and friend and I trust him implicitly on these matters.

So in short, NO CPC Required unless there is something in the operating procedures of your firm that require a CPC, but from a legality and injury point of view (which is the element I covered), your health and safety man is talking ut of his arse.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for that TC@tu*

So the lad did absolutely nothing wrong.

The h & s guy has written SOP's for almost every task within the company but not driving as yet... I suspect that when he gets round to it, it will state that CPC is req'd for all driving :bang:

 

[Vinterceptor]

I used to be a fleet truck fitter and 30 trucks in the yard being pulled in and out of the garage for adaptions at all times meant an awful lot of shunting due to the high turn around.

Some weeks we would turn around 150 trucks and not one of the 4 people had anything above 7.5 tonne licence. 2 didn't even have a car licence but all were very competent in shunting around the yard in big units. They were assessed at the start of the employment and monitored for the first few weeks but again it was down to competency and not legislation.

As T.C. clarifies with more Panache, tell him to go fuck himself or at the very least go back to school. He seems to be confusing his opinion with actual standards.

During our search for the truth regarding CPC, we went to the truck repair firm across the road from where we work and discovered that not one of the guys working there had a cpc and yet they drive artics around all the time.