• Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )

Diesel makes progress......

  • Thread starter R2B2
  • Start date
R

R2B2

Guest
You might laugh, but the progress with diesels outstrips that of petrols by a big margin.

It is generally recognised by the big manufacturers that petrol engines are nearing the limit of development........ whereas diesels have plenty of potential.

And with 16% more energy in diesel than petrol who can argue with that. 250 foot pounds of torque at 5,500 rpm eh! Yeah, bring it on!

There must be a reason for my indiscretion at Strencham Services two years ago!

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/02/25/thunder-star-1200-diesel-by-star-twin/
 
B

bitontheside

Guest
[

There must be a reason for my indiscretion at Strencham Services two years ago!

And mine in Germany about 10 years ago! c7u8
 
S

Smoothandquick

Guest
not so sure

R2B2 said:
You might laugh, but the progress with diesels outstrips that of petrols by a big margin.

And with 16% more energy in diesel than petrol who can argue with that. 250 foot pounds of torque at 5,500 rpm eh! Yeah, bring it on! ]

The only reason that diesel development outstrips that of gasolines is pure market demand.....with tax benefits and economy perks, the market share of diesels has risen dramatically....that's the only reason. There is a bucket load of development left with gasolines, direct injection (only a few manufacturers use this), more efficient turbo chargers, superchargers, bore linings, piston design....and so on and so on....

I'd love to see someone try and get all that torque through a puny bike tyre.....all the weight of a diesel lump will be nearer the front wheel......very interesting in the slippy stuff...:t
 

Codbasher

Registered User
So are you saying that Honda will bring out a V5 diesel Blackbird in 2006 then?? :dunno:
 
S

Smoothandquick

Guest
My point exactly.....

diesel equals heavier engine castings, a turbo, heavy weight injection system for the pressure, heavy duty pump.....:t
 

ianrobbo1

good looking AND modest
derek kelly said:
Remind us again Rob, what indescretion was that then? :rolleyes: :p
yes Rob, please feel free to remind us of your little indiscretion as you were on your way to a rider skills day Rob, we appear to have forgotten!! :rolleyes: what exactly was it you did?? :dunno:
 
F

frenchuk

Guest
And meanwhile, the very simple Pantone engine mod continues to be ignored...

(copy/paste for your benefit)
Talking about biofuel, anyone heard of the GEET Pantone engine mod? No? You think you can't run an engine partially on water? Well think again - here are few links - those worrying about environment have something to do now...
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Geet/
http://www.geet.com/
and do a bit of research yourself, here's a google link
 
S

Smoothandquick

Guest
Blimey Frenchie.....

Where did you dig this little lot up from ????

Some seriosu reading and research to do here me thinks......:eek:
 

Fat Bert

Registered User
FFS - please DON'T~~~~~~

Don't get our intrepid Rough-and-Rappant going on about the workings within the internal combustion engine

He bored me with 3 hours of constant "techie" stuff last weekend cos he's....

"An Exhaust Specialist" you know!

probably explains all the fecking hot gas he seems to spout from both major anatomical orifices!!!



















Mind you he can get Bike Zorsts cheap!!

LOL

Oh!! and Sausage Rob

I appreciate that you are completely color blind but................

Diesel pumps are BLACK

Hope that helps you?
 

Jaws

Corporal CockUp
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
Samster said:
I prefer the GSXR1000 powered SmartCar and the Yamaha paper models!

Got some film of that one running Sam.. If your interested I will dig it up and get a link posted..
 
F

frenchuk

Guest
Smoothandquick said:
Where did you dig this little lot up from ????
Some seriosu reading and research to do here me thinks......:eek:
I have friends who run their vans and cars on it - works perfectly well, no loss of power or anything, yet it is ignored/not encouraged/actively discouraged by the 'powers that be', the same who put a charge on chippie oil when you run your diesel car with it. But of course, their primary concern is the environment. Robbing lying cnuts :bang:
 
S

Smoothandquick

Guest
Fat Bert said:
Don't get me started on fudge again......

I bored S&Q with 3 hours of constant "fudgie" stuff last weekend cos I'm....

"A Fudge Specialist" you know!

probably explains all the fecking hot fudge I seem to spout from both major anatomical orifices!!!
Blimey Fudgey - I see you've finally come out of the closet then ?? :eek:
 
S

Smoothandquick

Guest
frenchuk said:
I have friends who run their vans and cars on it - works perfectly well, no loss of power or anything, yet it is ignored/not encouraged/actively discouraged by the 'powers that be', the same who put a charge on chippie oil when you run your diesel car with it. But of course, their primary concern is the environment. Robbing lying cnuts :bang:
Cheers for the info dude - gonna have a serious butchers into this - never heard of it before.....:bow:
 
R

R2B2

Guest
Smoothandquick said:
The only reason that diesel development outstrips that of gasolines is pure market demand.........that's the only reason.
Not being pedantic S&Q, but no it's not - far from it in fact.

Smothand quick said:
There is a bucket load of development left with gasolines
No, there's not! But it's not because of the reasons that you state, which are quite valid, but for entirely different reasons.

I posted an in depth industry report a while back, before you joined the forum I think.... I'll search it out and post a link later. Fascinating reading it is.

It's all to do with emissions mate - and diesels have the potential to be both cleaner and more powerful than petrol (there IS more energy in diesel!). Petrol engines are going to suffer from future earmarked legislation far more so than diesels, for these reasons, and this is why more R & D is going into diesels. Honda, for example are throwing huge amounts into it. So are Toyota and BMW.
 
R

R2B2

Guest
Found it. Here's the article....

As I said, it's forthcoming emissions legislation that will eventually force manuf's to start reducing the size of petrol engines. That's when the smaller capacity hi torque lightweight diesels will start to take the advantage. They are talking about the short, but torquey rev range of the small diesel engine being coupled to 8 or 9 speed touch shift gearboxes, and outperforming current setups by a long margin.
************************

The diesel bike question is more relevant than most people think. Here goes.....

There is a lot of R & D going on into smaller capacity, higher output diesel engines among the car engine manufacturers. This is because emission laws will get tougher, and diesel engines have the potential to run cleaner than petrol engines because of the way the fuel is burnt in the combustion chamber. As it stands already, much more of the petrol injected into an engine goes unburnt compared to that of a diesel, and that makes the petrol engine more of an emissions issue than the diesel.

Diesel engine technology is moving forward much quicker than the petrols, and it's all about torque. The BMW 330d engine produces more torque than the Ferrari 360 Modena. And Lotus are well involved in the development of a 1.2 litre diesel Elise that can already out accelerate a Porche 911 on 0-60. The bike manufacturers are watching closely for the car engine manufacturers to develop the small capacity diesel engine technology.

Why?

Because there's a shock in store for the bike makers in 2006 - "Euro 3". The Euro 3 emissions test will be far more stringent than at present and is going to bring problems for the big sportsbikes. For the first time bikes will have to compete on equal terms with cars re emissions.

Paul Etheridge is manager of the motorcycle group at Ricardo, one of the worlds foremost automotive technology providers and a company hugely instrumental in the development of the latest generation direct injection high speed diesel engines. Say's he "bikes have had it easy up 'til now. The emissions tests were carried out at no more than 50 kph, on fully warmed up engines. Euro 3 demands far higher speeds and loads - up to 120 kph - from a cold start. It gets worse. The engines will have to pass the same tests when it's 30,000 kms old, before the bike will get type approval. Getting petrol engines to return the kind of efficiency to pass those tests is going to be a Herculean task. To put it into perspective, were talking about R1's going from 150 bhp back down to 100 bhp". With ultra-high top-end power engines under threat, super-torquey, super-efficient diesel engines look more attractive.

The venture Roxxo mentioned is partly British, Hayes Diversified Technologies (HDT) are the brains from the Royal Military College of Science. They supply the modded Kawasaki KLR engine to the American Military (dubbed the JP8), a bike-specific diesel engine which is only 1 ft-lb of torque behind the original petrol motor.

David Blundell of Lotus Engineering says "The easier ride afforded by the big bang engines and large capacity four strokes is well established in MotoGP. The relatively flat torque curve of a diesel would offer the same advantages. And as the technological demands of smaller and smaller car diesel engines coincide more and more with the needs of potential bike engines, so things become much more exciting"

Ricardo predicts that in the next few years, automotive engines will get as good as they can get as far as emissions testing goes. That means the attention of the legislators will turn from the traditional emissions measures of testing for Carbon Monoxide, Hydro-Carbons and Nitric oxides, and instead will turn towards Carbon Dioxide - and that means reducing overall fuel consumption. Diesels are already most of the way there, but the rest must come from downsizing... making smaller engines more powerful.

That's why behind closed doors manufacturers the world over are working like mad to come up with the trickest sub 1.5 ltr turbo diesel engines they can - the sort of thing that would fit nicely into a bike frame. With variable vane turbo technology about to overcome the blight of turbo lag, it all becomes more obvious the way things are likely to go.
__________________
 
Top