In the News Contact Tracing App

[Oldandbald]

Let me clarify this for the hard of hearing amongst you.

I've never been on a bus. I understand from Google that they are a form of transport for poor people and that they stop outside poor peoples houses to pick them up and take them to work at the mine. Mainly up north.

My point is that, if I was stupid enough to live up north and near a bus stop, my not so smart phone would see all those people getting on and off the bus and log them as a contact. S0 how much use is the app actually going to be?

 

[Cougar377]

Let me clarify this for the hard of hearing amongst you.

I've never been on a bus. I understand from Google that they are a form of transport for poor people and that they stop outside poor peoples houses to pick them up and take them to work at the mine. Mainly up north.

My point is that, if I was stupid enough to live up north and near a bus stop, my not so smart phone would see all those people getting on and off the bus and log them as a contact. S0 how much use is the app actually going to be?

It's an interesting point, especially as later versions of Bluetooth increased the connection range. As far as I know there's no way of controlling the range that a phone with Bluetooth will scan out to. Which potentially could mean that you, with a far more up to date phone, could be connecting to more phones than the poor miners on the bus, with their ancient technology phones.

 

[slim63]

Anybody else suspicious of why this is being pushed as some sort of solution when its clearly fallible ?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coro...erts-warn-experts/ar-BB13DO0t?ocid=spartandhp

 

[Dark Angel]

Well, in the light of your question…

I reckon the Coronavirus “pandemic” has become an unintended exercise in the creation of mass hysteria which, in turn, has brought about the virtual acceptance, by the global population, of total governmental control.

If you keep telling people this often enough, eventually, many of them are going to begin to believe you.

If you then relax the rules for reporting deaths, you can then ascribe as many deaths to specific “causes” as you like.

Then, all you have to do is tell people why they “should” (“should” means must) wear a tracker and – hey, presto! – you’ve gained absolute control over the movements of the native population.

To those who might dismiss this as a ridiculous “conspiracy theory” I would point out that “conspiracies” are intrigues and machinations carried out in secret. All of the measures indicated here have been introduced into the UK and in many other countries as a matter of government policy, aided and propagated by the mainstream media.

All the hype about CV-19 spreading - you don't find it unless you're looking for it.

 

[Dark Angel]

Please believe me when I say that, with all the sympathy in the world for those who have suffered because of this disease, I’m absolutely fed-up with hearing about CV-19. Initially, I believed what I was being told, and I can’t honestly say what it was that I saw or heard that made me think: “No. I don’t think that makes any sense.” In a way, I wish I’d never had that thought, but, here I am again.

Anybody else suspicious of why this is being pushed as some sort of solution when its clearly fallible ?

If you’ve not seen the article Slim referred to, below is an extract that you might find interesting.

“The app, which is being trialled in the Isle of Wight, tells users if someone they have been in proximity with may be suffering from coronavirus, meaning they could be exposed.

But because users can set off the warnings themselves by reporting symptoms – rather than positive Covid-19 test results – it could be used to send out false alerts.

Dr Michael Veale, a lecturer in digital rights and regulation at University College London who this week gave evidence to MPs on the technology, told The Independent that Britain’s tracing app had nothing to stop individuals “maliciously triggering notifications” using its normal functionality.”

At first, I thought it was hilarious. I imagined a scenario in which the app was launched, nationwide, with all the fanfares and bells and whistles the government could muster. Only seconds after the “launch button” is pressed, a polite but cringingly hesitant professor (imagine Peter Sellers in the role) wanders nervously into the room with one finger raised skyward and tries to get the attention of his superiors: “Errrrrrmmm, excuse me sir, I… …I think…., I think… So sorry! (as he squeezes between two “big-wigs “Prime Minister – Prime Minister!

I rather think we may have overlooked something, sir!”

When I stopped laughing, I thought: "This is the state we’re living in. A situation so ludicrous that it’s beyond a joke."

 

[Pow-Lo]

Please believe me when I say that, with all the sympathy in the world for those who have suffered because of this disease, I’m absolutely fed-up with hearing about CV-19. Initially, I believed what I was being told, and I can’t honestly say what it was that I saw or heard that made me think: “No. I don’t think that makes any sense.” In a way, I wish I’d never had that thought, but, here I am again.

If you’ve not seen the article Slim referred to, below is an extract that you might find interesting.

“The app, which is being trialled in the Isle of Wight, tells users if someone they have been in proximity with may be suffering from coronavirus, meaning they could be exposed.

But because users can set off the warnings themselves by reporting symptoms – rather than positive Covid-19 test results – it could be used to send out false alerts.

Dr Michael Veale, a lecturer in digital rights and regulation at University College London who this week gave evidence to MPs on the technology, told The Independent that Britain’s tracing app had nothing to stop individuals “maliciously triggering notifications” using its normal functionality.”

At first, I thought it was hilarious. I imagined a scenario in which the app was launched, nationwide, with all the fanfares and bells and whistles the government could muster. Only seconds after the “launch button” is pressed, a polite but cringingly hesitant professor (imagine Peter Sellers in the role) wanders nervously into the room with one finger raised skyward and tries to get the attention of his superiors: “Errrrrrmmm, excuse me sir, I… …I think…., I think… So sorry! (as he squeezes between two “big-wigs “Prime Minister – Prime Minister!

I rather think we may have overlooked something, sir!”

When I stopped laughing, I thought: "This is the state we’re living in. A situation so ludicrous that it’s beyond a joke."

I just read the article and the bit that leaps out to me is:

"The UK is thought to be the only country in the world allowing people to self-report symptoms, rather than using Covid-19 test results."

No way, as in no way, am I installing that on my phone. Not a chance.

 

[Pow-Lo]

The way it has been explained is that the data is stored on your phone.

If you display symptoms or are tested positive then the user taps a button on the app and then the contact tracing takes place.

It has been emphasised that personal data is not stored or shared.

Why does everything have to be a conspiracy??

If it saves lives and helps suppress this awful disease then in my view the more peeople that participate the better.

This country could save a fortune by scaling back the intelligence services; DVLA knows where everyone is and has absolutely no qualms in selling our personal data to any Thomas, Richard or Harold. If you believe what they're saying about the privacy implications of this app, then you'll believe anything.

I find your trust in government assertions on this matter surprisingly naive, Andrew.

 

[Dark Angel]

I just read the article and the bit that leaps out to me is:

"The UK is thought to be the only country in the world allowing people to self-report symptoms, rather than using Covid-19 test results."

Seriously, Paul, it doesn’t make sense to me: none of it.

The only positive rationale that I can apply is that people are deeply susceptible to what their governments tell them. What I must remember is that governments are made up of people, too. They're the people who are under the greatest pressure to provide solutions to problems that (seemingly) have no precedent. No surprise, then, that errors of judgement are made. But, for fuck's sake be honest! Don't play the political game. If you don't know, say so - instead of filling the world with more lies.

Look at, and rely upon the records that have been carefully maintained and revised and reviewed for decades to ensure that they're valid and reliable beyond dispute, instead of meddling and mixing and "fixing" your guesswork until the numbers suit your purposes. There's so much crap flying around that nobody knows what's going on.

As I wrote earlier, I think “the Coronavirus “pandemic” has become an unintended exercise in the creation of mass hysteria which, in turn, has brought about the virtual acceptance, by the global population, of total governmental control”.

 

[Pow-Lo]

Seriously, Paul, it doesn’t make sense to me: none of it.

The only positive rationale that I can apply is that people are deeply susceptible to what their governments tell them. What I must remember is that governments are made up of people, too. They're the people who are under the greatest pressure to provide solutions to problems that (seemingly) have no precedent. No surprise, then, that errors of judgement are made. But, for fuck's sake be honest! Don't play the political game. If you don't know say so - instead of filling the world with more lies.

Look at, and rely upon the records that have been carefully maintained and revised and reviewed for decades to ensure that they're valid and reliable beyond dispute, instead of meddling and mixing and "fixing" your guesswork until the numbers suit your purposes. There's so much crap flying around that nobody knows what's going on.

As I wrote earlier, I think “the Coronavirus “pandemic” has become an unintended exercise in the creation of mass hysteria which, in turn, has brought about the virtual acceptance, by the global population, of total governmental control”.

1984................

 

[Dark Angel]

No, mate - 2020. We're far beyond the prophecies of "1984".

 

[andyBeaker]

This country could save a fortune by scaling back the intelligence services; DVLA knows where everyone is and has absolutely no qualms in selling our personal data to any Thomas, Richard or Harold. If you believe what they're saying about the privacy implications of this app, then you'll believe anything.

I find your trust in government assertions on this matter surprisingly naive, Andrew.

Naive if you like....but there is a much bigger picture - if it helps save lives surely it a total no-brainier?

In my opinion it is a pretty poor state of affairs if that isn't the most important consideration in the decision making process.

Either way, there is a lot of speculation (as ever) and maybe waiting until we know a bit more might be wise.

I just read the article and the bit that leaps out to me is:

"The UK is thought to be the only country in the world allowing people to self-report symptoms, rather than using Covid-19 test results."
.

Surely that is a good thing? There is no need to be tested to know if you have the symptoms. If you have the symptoms you are an obvious threat to others you come into contact with - surely it is beneficial to catch those with symptoms that have not been tested as well ? A major part of the self isolation programme is to stay at home if you are showing symptoms, not just if you have tested positive - we are frequently reminded that it appears the impact on the vast majority of Covid19 is relatively mild with a relatively small percentage of the population, sadly, being extremely vulnerable.

Until such time as testing for all is readily available self reporting seems to make sense. To me it seems essential.

 

[andyBeaker]

Please believe me when I say that, with all the sympathy in the world for those who have suffered because of this disease, I’m absolutely fed-up with hearing about CV-19. Initially, I believed what I was being told, and I can’t honestly say what it was that I saw or heard that made me think: “No. I don’t think that makes any sense.” In a way, I wish I’d never had that thought, but, here I am again.

If you’ve not seen the article Slim referred to, below is an extract that you might find interesting.

“The app, which is being trialled in the Isle of Wight, tells users if someone they have been in proximity with may be suffering from coronavirus, meaning they could be exposed.

But because users can set off the warnings themselves by reporting symptoms – rather than positive Covid-19 test results – it could be used to send out false alerts.

Dr Michael Veale, a lecturer in digital rights and regulation at University College London who this week gave evidence to MPs on the technology, told The Independent that Britain’s tracing app had nothing to stop individuals “maliciously triggering notifications” using its normal functionality.”

At first, I thought it was hilarious. I imagined a scenario in which the app was launched, nationwide, with all the fanfares and bells and whistles the government could muster. Only seconds after the “launch button” is pressed, a polite but cringingly hesitant professor (imagine Peter Sellers in the role) wanders nervously into the room with one finger raised skyward and tries to get the attention of his superiors: “Errrrrrmmm, excuse me sir, I… …I think…., I think… So sorry! (as he squeezes between two “big-wigs “Prime Minister – Prime Minister!

I rather think we may have overlooked something, sir!”

When I stopped laughing, I thought: "This is the state we’re living in. A situation so ludicrous that it’s beyond a joke."

Sadly there are always idiots who think it is funny to disrupt.

That's never going to change unfortunately.

To my mind the idiots that will inevitably trigger false alerts fall into the same category as the scum sellling non-existent face masks and smuggling drugs in consignments of PPE (yes, it did happen!).

Fortunately the vast majority of the population will take it seriously and act accordingly.

 

[Pow-Lo]

Naive if you like....but there is a much bigger picture - if it helps save lives surely it a total no-brainier?

In my opinion it is a pretty poor state of affairs if that isn't the most important consideration in the decision making process.

Either way, there is a lot of speculation (as ever) and maybe waiting until we know a bit more might be wise.


Surely that is a good thing? There is no need to be tested to know if you have the symptoms. If you have the symptoms you are an obvious threat to others you come into contact with - surely it is beneficial to catch those with symptoms that have not been tested as well ? A major part of the self isolation programme is to stay at home if you are showing symptoms, not just if you have tested positive - we are frequently reminded that it appears the impact on the vast majority of Covid19 is relatively mild with a relatively small percentage of the population, sadly, being extremely vulnerable.

Until such time as testing for all is readily available self reporting seems to make sense. To me it seems essential.

Is it really going to help save lives? I would imagine that the overwhelming majority of people will use it with the best intentions. However, the app relies on people self-diagnosing (or however else you want to phrase it) and there are way too many people out there with mal-intent. It can be used nefariously for more purposes than you could shake a stick at, whether some twat of a child wants a day off school to someone else wanting to clear a supermarket because they wouldn't let him/her in without as mask on. Also, there's the raft of hypochondriacs and the professional worry merchants that will activate at the first sign of hay fever. It's doomed to failure before it even starts.

Long and short of it is that it's open to abuse and that, in itself, is enough of a reason for me not to trust it. And then there's the privacy issues. For me, it's an absolute no-no. Even if it becomes a legal requirement, I'll still refuse to install it until I'm forced to.

 

[Dark Angel]

Sadly there are always idiots who think it is funny to disrupt.
Fortunately the vast majority of the population will take it seriously and act accordingly.

It only takes one or two, though, to disrupt, in its entirety, a system that's intended to cater for sixty million others. It's not safe.

My genuine concern is that the app seems to be the result of hasty decisions, based on no research whatsoever, coupled with an apparent determination to ignore methods successfully employed elsewhere that have proven more effective than others in identifying those infected by CV-19.

The app was identified as unreliable, and another glaring anomaly (use by children) was revealed by sources external to the official trial. These discoveries came, not a not as a result of pre-release testing, but more in the form of “whistle-blower” alarms. It seems obvious that these faults had never even occurred to anyone officially engaged in its design and distribution before the app was released.

Watch the video clip and heed the words of the gentleman explaining that “this is new technology”.

Perhaps he should have said “new and untested technology”.

 

[Dark Angel]

I've just watched the clip again.

Just imagine a car maker or a plane maker talking that way.

Remember - he's talking about an application that's aimed at millions of people.

 

[JayTee]

Qui custodiet ipsos custodes.

As true now as was first said, a sage warning from the past.
If it can be abused, it will be abused, it’s inevitable. .
People in Germany trusted their government little realising the information on their I.D. Card would give state agents enough information to arrest, detain and do much much worse.
Thing is, information is inert and harmless until it’s used against you, and always remember the road to hell is always paved with so called good intentions.
Anything that takes power and control from the individual should be treated with a healthy dose of suspicion.

 

[Dark Angel]

Balance. Quid pro quo. Equality. Commonality. Shared aspirations. Trust. Understanding.

Where did they go, and did such concepts ever, truly, evolve from the minds of men?

We've had so many chances - as individuals and as a species - to rise above our differences.

...Ain't many left.

(From the book of Jamesons. Sample 5. Sip 3)