Indeed.. I think it was Rudy Giuliani
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Bl**dy Cyclists
- Thread starter Martin L Batley
- Start date
Said like someone who has never looked up the true definition of anarchy!And your suggestion is?? Let anarchy rule?
He was sent home from the 'long spoilt walk with club in hand' once, cause his keks werent 'Rupert' enough.
Anarchy at its finest....Oh yes indeedy.
Warning…incoming rant…………
that is really, really unfair on ‘average plod’. You apparently have no idea whatsoever how under resourced they are and what a great job they generally - not always - do in the circumstances. Do you have any idea how much time is spent on ‘domestics’ and mental health issues rather than dealing with crime? Mental health as a result of other agencies not being resourced to do what they used to do/should be doing and indeed want to do in this area? Do you have any idea how many roles are filled by unpaid staff due to under funding - far from ideal, although many do a great job.
I do agree that more feet on the beat is highly desirable - as would plod themselves. They want to do it. Resources……
I would definitely agree that the judicial system lets plod down frequently. It is common knowledge that a very high proportion of crime is committed by a very small minority, mostly serial offenders, and the judicial system is geared up for wrist slapping. I am all,for,rehabilitation but there comes a time when some of these serial,offending scrotes need locking up.
That all adds up to ‘don’t blame plod, blame the underfunding and lack of judicial support the police service receives’. I for one would be prepared to increase my council tax if it went straight to plod; even down here in a pretty affluent area 48% went on ‘social housing costs’ last year. Yes, 48%. I have no wish to deny those in genuine need of housing support, but we all know there are loads of people out there playing the system, many of them likely the same repeat offending scrotes.
Based on some of the stuff I regularly see I often wonder why anyone works in front line policing in 2022 - it is close to and often is what most people would regard as being an impossible job. We should be grateful for those that do and offer them support rather than slagging them off.
Have a read of ‘Freakonomics’ that gives a fascinating insight into that theory along with many other social subjects.
its also a flipping good read.
So it’s not worth even trying to address the issue?
That has to be the most dangerous approach!
Remove all cyclists from the road, problem solved
Harsh.
I did loosen my tie and undo my top shirt button when going straight to,a Sex Pistols gig at The Marquee Club straight after work in my suit in 1976.
Remove all humans from the planet is the only real,solution.
Imagine how beautiful it would be if we had never emerged from the sea……..
Ok.. let them waste their time and our money making laws no one adheres to
Its like making a law saying it is illegal to let a cat crap in someone else other than the owners garden
At least no cyclists had emerged from the sea
I simply do not have the words to dismantle that bizarre logic, it is waaaaaay beyond me.
Enjoy the rest of the bottle
Which just goes to show how far apart we are in thinking
Warning incoming answer
The vast majority of plod do try to do what has become an impossible job, they are seriously underfunded, they are let down by the judicial system, don't forget the biggest failures in policing come from those further up the food chain in the police force itself
Even that isn't a complete picture, its an impossible job because there are not enough plod to go around, that is the fault of the government re underfunding and also of mismanagement of resources (and funds) by those with control within the police force itself .... the judicial sysetem lets us all down because the CPS try not to clog up the underfunded and understaffed courts with cases that have little chance of any meaningful punishment, and the courts themselves know that they cant put anymore strain on the already understaffed and overworked prison service
The way it was expressed to me recently by a long serving officer is "we are chasing our tails and just firefighting, jumping from one job to the next, on an night shift it's 50% worse"
This lad has 28 years service under his belt and is currently facing a disciplinary hearing for saying a (female) college is "useless in a fight or arrest" (doesn't fill you with confidence does it?)
And therein lies the problem an oldschool copper that was known and knew his patch, was willing to get stuck in when needed, was visible on the beat, and no nonsense in his or her approach to the general public is being phased out by graduates with little or no clue on the fast track to higher things
They seem to think swanning around in a new focus is community policing (it isnt), sitting in a van on a Friday or Saturday night fiddling with a PDA and waiting for a call isn't going to catch the lad dealing on the street corner 100yds away, oldschool policing just might ! all the gear and no idea comes to mind !
In short its down to money and finding good recruits, there is a serious shortage of both commodities!
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Now the rant ..
You may have noticed police powers have greatly increased since most of this forum members were young?
Some of that increase in power is for good reason (terrorism etc) and i have no problem with that, but a lot of it isn't good in the slightest, the days of innocent until proven guilty are long gone, lip service is paid to the good old fashioned principles but the reality is if plod wants to get you into court (and possibly jail) he will
Paperwork will be filled in saying all rules of custody and questioning were abided by but that's just paperwork and bares little or no resemblance to what actually happens
Stop and search is a good case in point!
I cant count the times I have been stopped in or on a vehicle and even walking down the street "because the law says we can" not once has there been any real reason or any crime detected (maybe i'm just a dodgy looking geezer)
I have had plod try to enter my home but with no evidence or suspicion of a crime being committed i made them stand on the step in the pissing rain (i was a witness) childish maybe but it felt damn good to prove even plod have to abide by the law sometimes
When all is said and done plod does what he or she wants without fear of retribution except in the most serious cases that eventually come to light, IPCC is a joke designed to make you give up complaining (guess who runs it)
I heard yesterday from a solicitor friend that police complaints procedure is under review and not a moment too soon in my view !
All of the above from the first word is a simplified explanation of why the general public have little confidence in the police forces in this country, its not all plods fault as explained at first but the me first arrogant attitude of the younger officers sure does get peoples backs up
And before you say it Andrew no I don't and wont call them for any reason !
slim63 ”When all is said and done plod does what he or she wants without fear of retribution except in the most serious cases that eventually come to light, IPCC is a joke designed to make you give up complaining (guess who runs it)”
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i totally, 100% do not see that - plod are forever looking over their shoulder worried about repercussions for actually doing their job. It is a real barrier to performance.
As,for,’stop and search’…well, it has never happened to me…….
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i totally, 100% do not see that - plod are forever looking over their shoulder worried about repercussions for actually doing their job. It is a real barrier to performance.
As,for,’stop and search’…well, it has never happened to me…….
Andy please believe what follows is a serious answer to your comment and in no way a piss take, I will try to explain my feelings/thoughts on this in an honest a way as possible
From what I know about you from here you seem to be a reasonably affluent man so presumably dress quite smartly even if in a casual way on occasion, I know you drive what to many of us is an expensive car and I will make the assumption that you live in quite a nice area (happy to be corrected on any of that)
Even when I had what you would probably call a reasonable amount of money I was always in either work gear, bike gear or ex army camo's and nothing much has changed, vehicles have been mostly older work vans, scruffy cars (used as vans) and ratbikes because I like them, i have done hundreds of thousands of miles across this country for work or fun which increases the probability of being stopped
I lived most of my life in the arse end of nowhere where dressing up meant a wedding, funeral or for the stupid/unlucky court now I live in the middle of a major town
As you can see there is a clear distinction between your lifestyle and mine in looks and transport if nothing else, from what I have experienced over the years plod in general seem to think the scruffy skinny guy in ripped camo's with the dirty fingernails is worthy of a "chat" while the tidy guy in chino's is probably just a nice guy on the way home from the office
I understand why this may be the case I fully admit I do look like a dodgy geezer despite being as law abiding as most but it does wear a bit thin after years of "chats" ....
So far in no particular order i have been stopped for "vehicle check" countless times must be 50 or more (always 100% legal .....
Under the misuse of drugs act (stop search) no other reason than I am thin and scruffy (must be 8 times now) .....
For an unspecified "chat" (usually walking home from the pub or mates) has to be 30 times at least ...
Like I say I understand a lot of people who are a problem look and dress similar to me. most plod are fine when they realize i am not that sort of twat and I pass the "attitude test" but just occasionally you get a dickhead and I let them have it while keeping polite and absolutely within the law (best performed in a public place and takes some practice )
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As for the police looking over their shoulder maybe with regard to "bending" the rules in the presence of cctv or a solicitor and certainly with regard to getting the paperwork "right" on major cases but in low level harassment not a chance.
The procedure is you have to complain to the force itself in the first instance where it will be "investigated", what this amounts to 99.9% of the time is you get a letter saying "your complaint was not upheld" (in my case the "investigation" was done by the shift supervisor of the two officers complained about which is against the law)
Because of this it got kicked to the joke shop (ipcc) not independant and are serving police officers, this results in the same letter with a different signature, push it and you get a variation of that letter with more detail but never an admission of wrongdoing no matter how clear cut it is
In the absence of a barrow full of cash to take them to court thats the end of a couple of years of stuggle for justice when police officers break the law !...... no matter how you look at it this is WRONG!
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Settle down or you'll give yourself another nosebleed.
If you reread my posts you'll notice that I'm not having a go at the average beat plod... we all know they're caught between a rock and a hard place. The real problem is the upper management, which is rapidly becoming the exclusive domain of fast tracked graduates with sod all experience of actual policing and who run their respective forces with spreadsheets and statistical analysis software.
But....the simple fact is that Joe Public has little faith in, or respect for, the police as a whole and would like to see a return to "proper" policing.... ie, serving the public on the everyday issues that effect us.... in much the same way as we'd like to see the NHS return to and prioritise it's core values.... patient care.
As an example of how policing has lost it's priorities... A while back Hampshire Police (who are constantly complaining about having a lack officers) were recruiting for a Social Media Officer.... not a civvy, a full time police officer.... to handle their social media presence.
Starting salary..? £28k.
That's more than a newly qualified PC/WPC gets paid. ie the "real" coppers who, from day one, would be expected to deal with all the fun and joy that the less desirable members of this fair land inflict on us and them.
Tell me that's a good use of resources.
First impressions count for a lot……Andy please believe what follows is a serious answer to your comment and in no way a piss take, I will try to explain my feelings/thoughts on this in an honest a way as possible
From what I know about you from here you seem to be a reasonably affluent man so presumably dress quite smartly even if in a casual way on occasion, I know you drive what to many of us is an expensive car and I will make the assumption that you live in quite a nice area (happy to be corrected on any of that)
Even when I had what you would probably call a reasonable amount of money I was always in either work gear, bike gear or ex army camo's and nothing much has changed, vehicles have been mostly older work vans, scruffy cars (used as vans) and ratbikes because I like them, i have done hundreds of thousands of miles across this country for work or fun which increases the probability of being stopped
I lived most of my life in the arse end of nowhere where dressing up meant a wedding, funeral or for the stupid/unlucky court now I live in the middle of a major town
As you can see there is a clear distinction between your lifestyle and mine in looks and transport if nothing else, from what I have experienced over the years plod in general seem to think the scruffy skinny guy in ripped camo's with the dirty fingernails is worthy of a "chat" while the tidy guy in chino's is probably just a nice guy on the way home from the office
I understand why this may be the case I fully admit I do look like a dodgy geezer despite being as law abiding as most but it does wear a bit thin after years of "chats" ....
So far in no particular order i have been stopped for "vehicle check" countless times must be 50 or more (always 100% legal .....
Under the misuse of drugs act (stop search) no other reason than I am thin and scruffy (must be 8 times now) .....
For an unspecified "chat" (usually walking home from the pub or mates) has to be 30 times at least ...
Like I say I understand a lot of people who are a problem look and dress similar to me. most plod are fine when they realize i am not that sort of twat and I pass the "attitude test" but just occasionally you get a dickhead and I let them have it while keeping polite and absolutely within the law (best performed in a public place and takes some practice )
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As for the police looking over their shoulder maybe with regard to "bending" the rules in the presence of cctv or a solicitor and certainly with regard to getting the paperwork "right" on major cases but in low level harassment not a chance.
The procedure is you have to complain to the force itself in the first instance where it will be "investigated", what this amounts to 99.9% of the time is you get a letter saying "your complaint was not upheld" (in my case the "investigation" was done by the shift supervisor of the two officers complained about which is against the law)
Because of this it got kicked to the joke shop (ipcc) not independant and are serving police officers, this results in the same letter with a different signature, push it and you get a variation of that letter with more detail but never an admission of wrongdoing no matter how clear cut it is
In the absence of a barrow full of cash to take them to court thats the end of a couple of years of stuggle for justice when police officers break the law !...... no matter how you look at it this is WRONG!
On the subject of complaints - something I have a little knowledge about - something that needs to be factored in is the sheer volume of fatuous complaints that are made, ususally by the totally guilty looking to squirm out of being accountable for their actions or the idiots that will stand by filming incidents with bugger all knowledge of the overall picture.and then cry ‘police brutality’. The wheat is of course there but it is sometimes very difficult to separate from the chaff.
I have no idea what your specific complaint was about - and I don’t want to know - but you clearly feel it was justified. Which is not the be all and end all, maybe it wasn’t justified? Perceptions can be very different depending on which side of the fence you are standing. Not judging as I have no idea, just observing.
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I have both good & bad experiences with the Police, much the same as the experiences I’ve had with tradesmen, shopkeepers, Hospitals, Doctors.
People often said to me (even Police Officers) “I couldn’t do your job” Police Officers who have no idea of what they are going to face in any situation, the daughter of a colleague/friend of mine was called to a so called domestic incident in Manchester, what happened next is written in history, two young female Officers lost their lives in a horrific way, RIP Nicola Hughes & Fiona bone, two honest, decent, lovely young ladies with their lives ahead of them, I was once stopped in a traffic jam, Bev got out of the car & was told to get back in (m1 slip road junction 39) by a Police Officer, Bev started to mouth off at him, he came over & said “Madam, please get back in your car, my colleague & good friend has just been killed only yards away, we will get you back moving as soon as possible”
My daughter’s ex boyfriend was a newly qualified Police Officer, one of his first calls was to an incident in Leeds, he & his mentor were fourth on scene at the murder of PC Ian Broadbent at the hands of David Bieber.
Whenever you have reason to speak to a Police Officer, just remember, you don’t know what they’ve had to deal with.
People often said to me (even Police Officers) “I couldn’t do your job” Police Officers who have no idea of what they are going to face in any situation, the daughter of a colleague/friend of mine was called to a so called domestic incident in Manchester, what happened next is written in history, two young female Officers lost their lives in a horrific way, RIP Nicola Hughes & Fiona bone, two honest, decent, lovely young ladies with their lives ahead of them, I was once stopped in a traffic jam, Bev got out of the car & was told to get back in (m1 slip road junction 39) by a Police Officer, Bev started to mouth off at him, he came over & said “Madam, please get back in your car, my colleague & good friend has just been killed only yards away, we will get you back moving as soon as possible”
My daughter’s ex boyfriend was a newly qualified Police Officer, one of his first calls was to an incident in Leeds, he & his mentor were fourth on scene at the murder of PC Ian Broadbent at the hands of David Bieber.
Whenever you have reason to speak to a Police Officer, just remember, you don’t know what they’ve had to deal with.