BBC1 - Hungerford & Michael Ryan

[T.C]

Brought memories flooding back even after all these years. I was there at the height of everything and saw first hand what was happening.

All the Motorcyclists from Reading (which included me) and Taplow were called out to grab a car each (rather than our bikes) and we desended on mass in Hungerford to help with the various tasks that had to be done.

Roger Brereton the traffic officer that was killed was a good buddy of mine and in fact I had only been talking to him half an hour before he went for his meal break with his crewmate Jim Wood (who appeared in the programme).

The devastation had to be seen to be believed, and I was one of those who helped recover Rogers body and his patrol car (23 points of entry, 12 points of exit) which was shot to pieces.

What made matters worse and something not commonly known, was that the patrol car was only about 2 weeks old, and the insurance company decided to rebuild it and put it back into service. Well you can imagine the uproar, and even back then Traffic division in Thames Valley was quite small and we all knew one another, so word soon got around and we threatened to put the car into the nearest Motorway overbridge and write it off properly if we ever got it back, so it was decided to return it to civillian spec and sell it on.

Took me about 5 years before I could actually stop in Hungerford, but seeing the programme tonight and many of my former colleagues (Eddy Shanks, my Sgt who died a year or so ago), Mick Moorby who has now retired, Pete Dudley my crewmate who is now retired (but was the star of Driving School with the Thames Valley students) brought it all back to me, and I remember it like it was yesterday.

Life goes on, but sure as hell sent a shiver up my spine

 

[RHINO]

Big respect to you T.C. for getting stuck in, i remember the scenes on TV but could not begin to imagine the gravity of it. Manchester is bed for gun crime but to have so much in one space and the civilian toll too. :bow:

I'm just glad that Michael Ryan took his own life, he was obviously mentally tortured as no body sain would committ such violence on that scale, he's better off RIP. :violin:
I missed the documentary tonight but i have read a little about it in the past and got some insight into it, if anyone oop north has it on video i'd be interested in viewing it.

 

[Mid Life Crisis]

TC :bow: :bow:

 

[derek kelly]

Respect to you mate, when David Beiber shot Ian Broadhurst last year my daughters ex boyfriend was called to the scene, he was fortunate that he was not first on the scene, Luck? or is someone really watching over us?

 

[Allan1]

Its a hard thing to do - but..

T.C., you are not on your own in having to deal with the tragic loss of friends and colleagues and I empathise with you, - but as with all loss it gets easier, it never leaves you but you learn to deal with it.

As a member of the Underwater Search Unit for several years I have had the difficult task of recovering numerous bodies of all ages in varying stages of decay or damage. Nothing is more distressing than having recover young children, poor soles who had their whole life in front of them, and but for one tragic slip its lost forever.

On more than one occasion I have had to recover the bodies of both serving and retired officers who have lost their lives to water – be it suicide or loss through bravery. That makes it doubly difficult as you know the poor sod gave his life for others, but was brave enough to attempt a rescue.

So, you will get through it, just remember the good times – not the tragedy.

Buzz

 

[T.C]

So, you will get through it, just remember the good times ? not the tragedy.

Buzz

I have been over it for a long time, after all it was 17 years ago, it simply made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up when I saw it all again.

2 years later I was first on scene when 16 people burnt to death on the M4 (again at Hungerford) and i had to watch people die because the inferno was too great for our fire equipment, that one didn't bother me at all even though when I did the vehicle examinations I was finding the feet of those that died in the remains as for some reason they didn't burn!

 

[chagoi]

I missed the documentary tonight but i have read a little about it in the past and got some insight into it, if anyone oop north has it on video i'd be interested in viewing it.

I also missed the programme but I've 'found' it on the net. If you want a copy (dvd) PM me with your details and I'll send you a copy.


:beer:

 

[RHINO]

that one didn't bother me at all even though when I did the vehicle examinations I was finding the feet of those that died in the remains as for some reason they didn't burn!

Maybe they were a couple of feet away :dunno:


Sorry, bad taste but $%3un

 

[ianrobbo1]

bad taste is something of an understatement!!, we have a "good" delete option on here John,!! :dunno:

 

[derek kelly]

Maybe they were a couple of feet away :dunno:


Sorry, bad taste but $%3un

John it appears Police humour is on a level with prison humour, the jokes that are told in the prison, you could not repeat in polite company, maybe it's to do with the type of people we are dealing with.

 

[Murt]

TC

Im glad that you have managed to put the 'incident' behind you.
But
I was told at a training briefing a couple of years later that an MOD Police patrol of two officers was in the area on the day, ( only minutes away) and was refused 'authority' ( senior officer refused to let them fully tool up).

I was told that they were kept outside the village centre for some time whilst the shootings were still going on.

Now I know how these things are made up, and become 'conspiracy theory' stuff, but the briefing was being given by a very high ranking Met officer, who put forward the idea of, in those circumstances, using anything or anyone you can to gain control of an 'unusual' problem.

Any info ?

Murt

 

[derek kelly]

During the Manchester prison riots in 1990 the chief of Manchester police John Stalker stated "I have as many rubber bullets and water cannons that you may need" the home secretary would not permit their use, we were in attendance in full riot gear fully prepared to take control, which we could have done on the first day, but were made to stand around doing nothing for days, allowing the situation to escalate causing millions of pounds worth of damage.

 

[T.C]

I was told at a training briefing a couple of years later that an MOD Police patrol of two officers was in the area on the day, ( only minutes away) and was refused 'authority' ( senior officer refused to let them fully tool up).

I was told that they were kept outside the village centre for some time whilst the shootings were still going on.

Now I know how these things are made up, and become 'conspiracy theory' stuff, but the briefing was being given by a very high ranking Met officer, who put forward the idea of, in those circumstances, using anything or anyone you can to gain control of an 'unusual' problem.

Any info ?

Murt

There were all sorts of conspiracy theories for a long time after, but the problem we had at that time was that there was fragmented information on the ground due to the communications system we (and all other emergency services) had, and we compared with many forces were state of the art.

If the MOD had gone in (although I never knew that MOD Plod were in the area), is that if anyone else had been injured as a result of an outside force becoming involved, Thames valley would have been held accountable and the question would no doubt have been asked why did we not deal with it ourselves.

Like many things though, it is always easy after the event to say that this or that could have been done better, but the truth of it is that this was the first time anything of this nature had ever occured and so we had to hit the ground running and learn from our mistakes which we hoped would not have a distrastrous impact. As they say, hindsight is wonderfull with 20/20 vision, so I have to say that the incident was dealt with professionaly and as best we could at the time.

I did hear that the Met got very upset that they were not invited to assist man8um but I don't see that they could have done anything any better, and they would have taken even longer to arrive. In any case at that time many Met officers came to Thames Valley for their firearms training, so would they have been any more effective outside their own area not knowing the patch as we knew it?

 

[derek kelly]

In all incidents there is always someone who knows how a job could have been handled better, but the cold truth of the matter is we all know how we would like to react but when faced with the situation we don't react how we thought we would,
In the case of the Shooting of PC Ian Broadhurst his colleague states "I ran and I regret that I now have to live with that for the rest of my life thinking what could I have done" But what could he have done? absolutely nothing David beiber is a cold blooded killer and would have shot anybody who stood in his way, pc roper in my book is a hero he had already been shot but he managed to run and still use his radio to warn back up that he had been shot.

 

[HeavensFire]

D.K.

John it appears Police humour is on a level with prison humour, the jokes that are told in the prison, you could not repeat in polite company, maybe it's to do with the type of people we are dealing with.

'Tis called 'Black Humour', a way of dealling with the tradegy and horror that we are sometimes exposed to! - Not always funny to others and you are right, not to be repeated in polite company, but I know where you are coming from!

 

[T.C]

'Tis called 'Black Humour', a way of dealling with the tradegy and horror that we are sometimes exposed to! - Not always funny to others and you are right, not to be repeated in polite company, but I know where you are coming from!

Absolutely right on, it is the only way you can deal with it sometimes.

During the Miners dispute I dealt with a fatal RTA where one of the tankers transporting heavy oil to Didcot Power staion went down the embankment on the westbound M4.

The driver was killed instantly but was half in and half out of the cab, however we couldn't move him because the tractor was on its side, and we couldn't move the tractor until we had emptied 30+ tons of heavy oil into smaller tankers.

Anyway, being early January, Fire service turn up with their mobile canteen to provide soup and refreshments (Took us 9 hours to unload the oil).

During the course of the day, someome put a blanket over the deceased to stop him catching his death of cold, someone else gave him a cigarette to calm his nerves and I gave him a cup of hot soup (bearing in mind he has been dead for about 6 hours by now!)

It may have seemed sick to some, but that is black humour.

Another time I dealt with a suicide (it was actually my first fatal as a traffic officer) where a mentally disturbed guy ran out in front of an artic. His brains were splattered everywhere, so why we are waiting for the undertakers to remove his remains, I lit up a fag and was chatting as you do when my Sgt said "Watch out, your flicking fag ash on his brains!" Without even thinking I said "Sorry mate!" at which point my skipper collapsed with laughter.

I could tell you hundreds of stories like that (I went to around 3,000 fatal RTA's during my service) and black humour is the best way of not thinking about the consequences of what you are dealing with!

 

[derek kelly]

Several years ago a colleague of mine was taking his turn at cooking the breakfast for his shift, he lifted his head and banged it on an open cupboard door knocking himself out when the others on his shift heard the noise they went into the kitchen to find him laid on the floor with his face in the frying pan and his facial skin peeling off, he was off work for several months and on the day of his return he was crossing over the road to the prison when he was hit by car, his senior officer visited him in hospital, and commented you're not having much luck are you? to which he replied "Guess not.... Out of the frying pan into the tyre".

 

[HeavensFire]

T.C.

Very much an 'in house' sense of humour! - I've lost 5 very good friends and have various other 'experiances' of death.
I finished with the Military last year, but have friends in the Emergency Services that have had to deal with the same sh*t. - Life moves on! R#?

Makes me appriciate what I have! - NO sense of spelling!

 

[T.C]

When I first went on bikes we didn't have leathers, we used to wear surge britches with either a barbour jacket or quilted nylon.

Anyway, one of the lads had one of the last Norton 850 Commando and was on his way to a shout down the A4 when his back tyre blew out. He slid for some distance but was fortunately unhurt. When we got there someone asked how far he had slid after the blow out to which my colleague replied 42.6 yards or something to that affect.

"How can you be so exact" came the reply, "Because I marked the bloody scene as it happened" he replied.

What had happened was that Terry had some road chalk in his back pocket and as he hit the road the pocket wore through instantly and he lefy an exact yellow chalk mark behind him as he slid so we were able to measure the point where he hit the deck to the point where he came to rest, so after that he got nicknamed "Chalky".

Anyway, his bike was taken for repair and after a few weeks he got it back. His first morning back on duty with his own bike a shout came up so off Terry goes, but only gets as far as the entrance to the base when he had to stop for traffic on the major carriageway outside the base. In the office we heard an almight bang, went outside and found a newly repaired bike again on its side with its rider underneath.

Someone had forgotten to cut out the foot recess of the fairing, so as soon as the bike stopped and the rider went to put his foot down, there was no way he could get his feet out from the fairing, so he fell over with the bike on top of him. Someone in the workshop had forgotten to cut away the recess/

Anyway, when the bike was again returned to service and before the bikes rider was next on duty, it was fitted with a pair of very nice stabilisers! :yo: