Wet weather confidence

[Stevebrooke]

I took my IAM test on Wednesday after only two observed rides and despite giving it my all I was failed because of my approach to right hand bends (position on the left side etc, etc) and making a mess of a sharp right hand junction (my fault, I just lost it completely). The examiner says go away and practice and book another test because you are so close to the standard.

He also mentioned my lack of confidence in the wet, and after thinking about it for the last couple of days it has really started to bother me and feel I must discuss it with him the next time I take my test.

Is it lack of confidence, over-caution, or anything else for that matter to not lean over quite so much when the road is wet. You could be leaning round a bend and find yourself confronted by a wet manhole cover or patch of diesel directly in your path. I would definately fail then if I fell off wouldn't I? :rant:

Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for listening.

 

[D.S.]

a spare set of wheels and a nice set of wets, thats what you need that is :}

 

[Bob Pinder]

Relax, relax, relax

Breath in through your nose and out through your mouth

Its a matter of practise and this is where your observation really comes into play for thoses smooth lines and movements

 

[Stevebrooke]

Thanks for the advice Clive and Bob. :bow:

What I forgot to mention was the fact that I had a fall on black ice about 18 months ago. I was only doing about 15 or 20 mph but I went straight down on my right shoulder and it had limited movement for over a year. I don't think I have ever got over it and this is probably my reason for my reluctance to lean, so there is probably a bit of psychology in it too.

Wet weather in itself doesn't bother me, but I have a few weeks before my next test so I will practice what you have told me - subject to the availability of adequate amounts of rain of course.

 

[moon the loon]

look up

One could get really analytical about riding in the wet but the long and the short of it is "look up". Keep your head up, spot the hazards (man hole covers etc) from a far and keep looking up. You'll find this way that everything becomes much calmer in your head, you'll relax and your confidence will grow. Even if you do slip a little on a manhole cover, if you are looking a ways down the road you'll hardly even notice it. Watch the GP this weekend and look where those guys are looking - miles down the bleeding track! Once your confidence it there in the wet, provided you are nice and watertight, you should enjoy riding in the wet as much as in the dry. Regards

 

[Codbasher]

I did a bike safe day in London today, and one of the questions raised was about riding in the wet, according to the Police you only lose about 10 -15% of grip, but more hazards by way of puddles, manhole covers, wet leaves etc make themselves known.
One of the things I was picked up on today was gearchanging, and too much of it, we did a section my way, brakes gears etc, I thought I was quite good, then we did it with the cop in front, smooth, no brake lights, we did it again, this time I was not allowed more than 3rd gear, using the throttle smoothly, I did not need brakes, bike was more responsive and felt better, and my travelling time was actually quicker, and according to the copper and my petrol tank I did not seem to lose economy.

Any comments Clive??

 

[Jono]

I was told once by a Police Instructor, "If you think your in the right gear for a corner....select one down from it, then you probably are". :bow:

 

[Bob Pinder]

Codbasher

Glad to hear you learned something, as you know the Bikesafe scheme is a taster, and brief introduction, for what can be achieved.

As people who know me can vouch - I achieve incredible mileages from my brakes, tyres and C&S etc and now you can see how this is possible.

Keep it up :bow:

 

[Bob Pinder]

Jono

A Police Instructor recently told me he loved me - I didn't believe that either

You know who you are "Mr B" c7u8

 

[mikew]

er ....

Yes, there are more hazards in the wet but modern tyres perform almost as well in the wet as in the dry. OK, so you're cranked over in a bend and you have a potentially slippy item on your line,....

Modern tyres may be as good in the wet as the dry, I personally don't believe it myself, (having had my back tyre spin up in the wet, it sure as hell don't do it in the dry), but that aside, it's not the grip available via the tyre itself that is the "issue", it's more about what the tyre is trying to grip onto, a wet road surface simply does not provide the same grippy surface for a tyre to hang onto, especially if it covered in wet leaves, diesel, general grime, litter etc etc.





Steve Brooke also said..

"He also mentioned my lack of confidence in the wet, and after thinking about it for the last couple of days it has really started to bother me and feel I must discuss it with him the next time I take my test."

nothing like boosting a guy's confidence there then...as it has exactly the opposite effect in getting Steve concerned about it..



also Steve added..

"What I forgot to mention was the fact that I had a fall on black ice about 18 months ago. I was only doing about 15 or 20 mph but I went straight down on my right shoulder and it had limited movement for over a year. I don't think I have ever got over it and this is probably my reason for my reluctance to lean, so there is probably a bit of psychology in it too.

Wet weather in itself doesn't bother me, ..."

having been through the a similiar event, I find myself more "cautious" on a right hand bend, and the recent RSDD showed this up terribly to me, add in the wet track, forget it, I didn't feel safe or confident about the percieved grip on the "track", and that was on new sticky rubber.

Surely someone cannot fail a test on a bike for riding within his limits, which is what appeared to happen to Steve. We all have our own self imposed limits, who else can decide those limits for us? If Steve didn't feel he could safely go much quicker around the corner, then thats' fine, surely.

my 2 pennies worth.

 

[nigs]

Which also brings us round to the subject of having confidence in the tyres. I've had BT020's on for about 12k - never had a problem with these sliding or moving around in the wet. Hardly had to change my riding style or speed.

Just before going away a couple of weeks ago I changed to the Avons. Wet roads in France - bike was slipping and sliding all over the place. In the dry, no problems at all, but in the wet I was probably knocking at least 25% of the speed off (possibly more), and the back-end was still loosing grip. So, is it down to the French road surface or the tyres. Not had a chance to try them in the wet in the UK (apart from motorway), so the jury is out at the moment.

 

[OzCrow]

Never tried the Avons myself but of all the tyres I've used Michelins have always performed faultlessly in the wet...can almost ride as hard as when in the dry. I used to run the Pilot Power/Road combo but am even more impressed with the Powers front & rear in the wet.

If you want to do some slipping and sliding I'd recommend Dunlops

 

[skippy]

Like Bob I too get incredible mileage out of my tyres and brake pads.

Don't go through a lot of brakelight bulbs either m8 :}

Of course there is another side to the braking coin as well it is all too easy to get into a groove and become very rusty in the dark arts of braking, particulary in an emergency situation. Braking is a skill like all others in the riding world and needs to be practised lest you find yourself deficiant when the shit hits the fan particulary with the Bird which can display "unique" characteristics when the braking system is put to task.

 

[metal mickey]

Wet Weather Riding

Hi Guys:yo:,

I just did my first track day here in Ireland at Mondello Park.

It was raining for the second half of the day. It allowed me to get to know the track earlier on in the dry which was f**king great. I was really impressed with my bird the angles you can lean to are fantastic, much more than I thought.

What amazed me was the amount of grip in the wet later on. It was really tipping down but I was still able to scrape the pegs no problem at all.

The upshot is the difference between wet and dry is not as big as I thought.

 

[trophychap]

QUOTE Just before going away a couple of weeks ago I changed to the Avons. Wet roads in France - bike was slipping and sliding all over the place. In the dry, no problems at all, but in the wet I was probably knocking at least 25% of the speed off (possibly more), and the back-end was still loosing grip. So, is it down to the French road surface or the tyres. Not had a chance to try them in the wet in the UK (apart from motorway), so the jury is out at the moment. UNQUOTE

Someone on this Forum's wife has been asking herself much the same question just in the last couple of days mate - just substitute 'Welshpool' for 'France' and 'Front' for 'Rear' ..........

Jenny

 

[Gerrard]

Wet Weather

Some interesting posts on this one, but something don't quite add up to me!
Most of the posts are about riding in the wet and all the replys are good and valid. My concern is the test itself ...... is the test taken in both wet and dry conditions on the day? Because if you were taking the test on dry roads then you have an advantage over someone who turns up on a rainy day. To my mind all the allowances in the world won't make up the difference between riding in the wet as opposed to dry, although moderate speed in wet weather comes with experience and confidence.
Being an ex-dispatch rider of 17 years, I've had to ride in all weathers and temperatures and feel I can ride pretty safely in both, and at speed when necessary.
But I still don't understand why you have to ride as fast in the wet as you do in the dry in a test, as to me when riding fast in the wet the rules are completly different although it's a point of being safe regardless of speed.
Anyway my question is really is there a wet and dry part in this test to make things equal.
For the record, yes I did take a test 25ish years ago so things might/will have changed a bit but as I remember in my dotage the accent was on safety at speed either in wet or dry conditions... perhaps I have read the post wrong??!
Zippo

 

[steve morris]

me too

I too suffer from a lack of confidence in the wet. We were out Sunday with a crowd at Welshpool and Wales being Wales it rained all day on and off. I am now suffering with a real bad muscular pain between my shoulder blades spreading up to my neck. I have been on the bike for longer periods before and not suffered like this. I believe it was because I was too tense on the bike because of the lousy conditions and the fact I had a pillion on. I dont know why because I have not fallen off in the wet (or dry) before. I suppose its because I dont go out much in the wet and need practice?

Taffy gave me a good tip the other day, if you dont relax the bike is 'tense' as well as you and therefore wont go round corners! good incentive to practice I supppose, although you would think with all the shit weather we have we should all be wet weather riding gods!!!

:beer: :beer:

 

[Rods]

in response to graphite e.s i think the idea with the iam test is that you have to display your abilities as an ADVANCED motorist. safety is always the most important factor in the test, but the examiner needs to see an ability to "make progress" when the conditions allow. this is one of the signs of an advanced rider - to know how to read the road and conditions so that you know when to make progress. this is of course leaves a level of subjectivity in the test, because you've got to meet each individual examiners requirements on safe conditions to make progress. however, and i think everyone would agree, those examiners know their stuff - i would be very happy if i was half as good a rider as many of them!

as regards to tyres, i'm on avons. they've been great so far in dry and wet (and yesterday was pretty feckin' awful). however, i'll keep people posted if anything untowards happens. i guess that means if i suddenly stop posting something untoward happened!

going back to the original thread theme on lean through corners. steve, i note this thread was first posted a while ago - i hope you've had more luck with your iam test since then. but in case you haven't, i'd like to throw my thoughts in with the others for you to think about. did the examiner specifically mention speed through corners as a problem? if you are not comfortable entering corners any faster then you've probably got the entry speed (oo er) correct. you should be able to stop in the distance you can see (i.e. if you see a tractor etc), but this should also allow you plenty of time to adjust line mid corner for road crap and the typically poorly placed manhole cover! what the examiner may have meant was exit speed. through the corner keep you eyes up (as other people have said), and once the vanishing point starts to move away from you you can start to chase it by opening the throttle as the corner opens. this may well be what he/she meant - it is certainly an area in which i often find myself lacking.

 

[Allan]

Some interesting posts on this one, but something don't quite add up to me!
Most of the posts are about riding in the wet and all the replys are good and valid. My concern is the test itself ...... is the test taken in both wet and dry conditions on the day? Because if you were taking the test on dry roads then you have an advantage over someone who turns up on a rainy day. To my mind all the allowances in the world won't make up the difference between riding in the wet as opposed to dry, although moderate speed in wet weather comes with experience and confidence.
Being an ex-dispatch rider of 17 years, I've had to ride in all weathers and temperatures and feel I can ride pretty safely in both, and at speed when necessary.
But I still don't understand why you have to ride as fast in the wet as you do in the dry in a test, as to me when riding fast in the wet the rules are completly different although it's a point of being safe regardless of speed.
Anyway my question is really is there a wet and dry part in this test to make things equal.
For the record, yes I did take a test 25ish years ago so things might/will have changed a bit but as I remember in my dotage the accent was on safety at speed either in wet or dry conditions... perhaps I have read the post wrong??!
Zippo

I think you have missed the point here.

Its not about outright speed, its about making progress, and that means keeping up with the pace of the traffic. If your lack of confidence in the wet means slowing down considerably, then you become a hazard to other road users who will be attempting to pass you. This is where you can be marked down.

Examiners look for many things in a rider, and situational awareness is of them. This means being switched on to what everyone else is doing and being in tune with that.

On a 30 mph road, they are looking for you to do 30mph, not 25, and not 35, but as close to 30 as possible etc etc.

Gears ? be in the correct gear for the speed of the vehicle, not the situation (police roadcraft)

This can be interpreted many ways, as examiners will also look at vehicle sympathy, example - when doing 30 on a road that stretches away into the distance for miles and miles, he wouldn?t expect you to be hanging onto 2nd, or 3rd, but take a more relaxed gear that settles the bike, but at the same time keeping it responsive, so this on a Bird could be 4th or 5th, at a push 6th (but unlikely).

Wet riding ? the big secret is observations and planning. Good forward observations will see hazards like puddles, manhole covers white lines etc, then you plan to what you see. The big fault with a lot of riders is they fail to plan to what they see early enough. See it, react to. This is very fluid and dynamic, its constantly changing, so must you.

Buzz

 

[Stevebrooke]

Rods

As you are new on the site you will probably not know that I passed my IAM test at the second attempt back in November.

I discussed with the examiner before the test about performance in the wet and politely pointed out to him that he would probably fail me if I didn't increase my braking distance substantially in the wet, so why did he expect me to not reduce my lean angle. Unfortunately he could not give me a sensible answer, but repeatedly talked about water dispersion and 85-90% of the grip still available in the wet, as he had done following my first test.

The test was carried out on a rearranged day in the wet, after HE cancelled the original booking on the morning of a very DRY and SUNNY day (maybe I'm paranoid, maybe he was genuine). I performed the tricks he asked for and he passed me, but not without a bit of constructive criticism.

I am still a little nervous in the wet, although less than previously, and still exercise a great deal of caution in case of hidden dangers, particularly diesels spills which are visible during the day, but not at night.