C
cbr11xx
Guest
Open discussion on clutchless shifting please...
-
Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )
Allan
Registered User
Short shifting..
It all depends on the riders skill, confidence and ability.
Short shifting is def better, smooooother for a pillion if done correctly. Its also a quicker way of changing gear.:bow:
On the minus, if a changed is fegged up then its very obvious and can make the bike lurch forward. Not nice for a pillion.
Simplist way to do it is, put a slight pressure under the gear leaver as to lift it up, when at your desired speed for the gear, slightly roll off the throttle and the gear leaver will slot up into the next gear, roll the throttle back on and off you go.
Done properly, its over in the blink of an eye and no one notices (cue abuse from Bert)
I always use the clutch coming down the box as I might want to drop two or three gears in one go, and I always blip the throttle to help keep the engine spinning to meet the speed of the box, stops that nasty bite and dip of the front (good thing to do on slippy surface)
Buzz
Buzz
It all depends on the riders skill, confidence and ability.
Short shifting is def better, smooooother for a pillion if done correctly. Its also a quicker way of changing gear.:bow:
On the minus, if a changed is fegged up then its very obvious and can make the bike lurch forward. Not nice for a pillion.
Simplist way to do it is, put a slight pressure under the gear leaver as to lift it up, when at your desired speed for the gear, slightly roll off the throttle and the gear leaver will slot up into the next gear, roll the throttle back on and off you go.
Done properly, its over in the blink of an eye and no one notices (cue abuse from Bert)
I always use the clutch coming down the box as I might want to drop two or three gears in one go, and I always blip the throttle to help keep the engine spinning to meet the speed of the box, stops that nasty bite and dip of the front (good thing to do on slippy surface)
Buzz
Buzz
To me this is along the same lines as countersteering..
Its just something that I have always done without thinking about it..
Rarely use the clucth for upchanges.. its not that I am clever just bloody lazy !
Oh and for the record, re counter steering, it is actually bloody hard NOT to counter steer if you are 'making progress' whether you realise you are doing it or not !!
Its just something that I have always done without thinking about it..
Rarely use the clucth for upchanges.. its not that I am clever just bloody lazy !
Oh and for the record, re counter steering, it is actually bloody hard NOT to counter steer if you are 'making progress' whether you realise you are doing it or not !!
A
Amsterdam
Guest
Upchanging is always clutchless, I preload the shift lever while accelerating so when I back the throttle off the torque pinning gear in place backs off and she just slips up a gear. Very rarely clutchless on the downshift - only if I'm in a big hurry or scared shitless - then I'll stamp it down !
Ahh! the countersteering debate - I love this one. My bro always thought he was steering a bike by leaning it over until I told him to try it with his hands on the tank !
Amsters
Ahh! the countersteering debate - I love this one. My bro always thought he was steering a bike by leaning it over until I told him to try it with his hands on the tank !
Amsters
M
Mushroom Pete
Guest
Clutchless changes
Bike boxes are designed for clutchless changes going up. You are backing off the throttle as you snick up, so engine speed is dropping to match wheel speed as the gears engage. Going down, this doesn't automatically happen, You can try to blip the throttle, but chances are you'll just feck it up, especially on a big four stroke with lots of torque. Or you can just stamp down, which isn't that friendly to engine, box, chain and tyre.(it;s easy on small two strokes) (Those biking gods amongst us who can have my respect).
Going from from 1st to 2nd isn't as easy as the other changes, you have to be very possitive so as not to hit neutral by mistake, so I usually use the clutch for that one.
But how and when you change gear is a choice based on all sorts of perameters; how fast, how quick, weather, solo or two up. The trick is to have the right gear change for every situation.
I thought short shifting is when you change up before you need to, to avoid a gear change mid bend.
Bike boxes are designed for clutchless changes going up. You are backing off the throttle as you snick up, so engine speed is dropping to match wheel speed as the gears engage. Going down, this doesn't automatically happen, You can try to blip the throttle, but chances are you'll just feck it up, especially on a big four stroke with lots of torque. Or you can just stamp down, which isn't that friendly to engine, box, chain and tyre.(it;s easy on small two strokes) (Those biking gods amongst us who can have my respect).
Going from from 1st to 2nd isn't as easy as the other changes, you have to be very possitive so as not to hit neutral by mistake, so I usually use the clutch for that one.
But how and when you change gear is a choice based on all sorts of perameters; how fast, how quick, weather, solo or two up. The trick is to have the right gear change for every situation.
I thought short shifting is when you change up before you need to, to avoid a gear change mid bend.
M
Mushroom Pete
Guest
Well~~
A few years ago I actually asked this question whilst on a Honda Race School Day at Mallory
To them there professionals "Short Shifting" is the changing up to a higher gear before the main power band i.e on a BIRD changing to a higher gear at anything below 7K revs
Allan said:
A few years ago I actually asked this question whilst on a Honda Race School Day at Mallory
To them there professionals "Short Shifting" is the changing up to a higher gear before the main power band i.e on a BIRD changing to a higher gear at anything below 7K revs
DB on CBR1100XX
Official BASH referee !
Hardly ever use the clutch now.........
........I've been enlightened to the clutchless technique [apart from 1st clearly !]
The trick is to be accelerating fairly briskly and back off the throttle just a tad on the upshift: fairly easy.
The trick is downshifting - I've found the smoothest are when you are on the overrun proper with throttle closed off completely with just a tad of a blip as you change down. Timed right, it can be just as slick as an upchange but takes a while longer to master.
I do worry about wear on the output shaft bearing and cushdrives though in the event of a 'clunky' change.............
........I've been enlightened to the clutchless technique [apart from 1st clearly !]
The trick is to be accelerating fairly briskly and back off the throttle just a tad on the upshift: fairly easy.
The trick is downshifting - I've found the smoothest are when you are on the overrun proper with throttle closed off completely with just a tad of a blip as you change down. Timed right, it can be just as slick as an upchange but takes a while longer to master.
I do worry about wear on the output shaft bearing and cushdrives though in the event of a 'clunky' change.............
Allan
Registered User
Lumps, well yes and no.lumpy said:
Thing is you see is that I (and i'm sure Bob and other Advanced riders would agree) that you shouldnt be changing gear mid corner. So short shifting up a gear while banked over in a bend because youre running out of steam means that you fooked the approach to the bend up in the first place.
You only want to be changing gear when the bends opening up and and the bike coming back up to the fatter part of the tyres.
So is short shifting a techinque for poor riders to use who cant gudge bends correctly?
Comments........
Buzz
M
Mushroom Pete
Guest
Short Shifting
Short Shifting is a technigue used by everyone from club racers to Moto GP gods. It's probably never used on the road unless you're riding very fast through a set of curves that you know well enough to know that when you exit, the engine's going to be banging off the rev limiter.
On a blackbird, short Shifting probably translates to entering a bend at 60mph in second, rather than first, because you know you exit speed will be over 90mph. I'm now laughing to think of me ever riding my bike like that, not me officer.
Short Shifting is a technigue used by everyone from club racers to Moto GP gods. It's probably never used on the road unless you're riding very fast through a set of curves that you know well enough to know that when you exit, the engine's going to be banging off the rev limiter.
On a blackbird, short Shifting probably translates to entering a bend at 60mph in second, rather than first, because you know you exit speed will be over 90mph. I'm now laughing to think of me ever riding my bike like that, not me officer.
Wolfie
Is a lunp
most of us short shift the gears every day.
on the straight road, do you take every gear to its full power????? of course you dont, therefore you have short shifted.
agree about not changing gears in mid bend unless you have fecked up going in or somebody else has fecked up in the bend and you need to get out of harms way.
on the straight road, do you take every gear to its full power????? of course you dont, therefore you have short shifted.
agree about not changing gears in mid bend unless you have fecked up going in or somebody else has fecked up in the bend and you need to get out of harms way.
Wolfie
Is a lunp
so do you ride in first gear in the town at 9000rpm, or change up???
peak power is around 10250rpm if you change up you have not used all the gear therefore have short shifted.
if like me you stick in 4th or 5th through town i am in the wrong gear for accelerating cause i am only going 2500rpm.
peak power is around 10250rpm if you change up you have not used all the gear therefore have short shifted.
if like me you stick in 4th or 5th through town i am in the wrong gear for accelerating cause i am only going 2500rpm.
N
NiteNurse
Guest
Clutchless changing
I'm like Jaws......dont even think about it, hardly ever use the clutch for up shifts. Always use the clutch for down shifts and give a good blip of throttle when using "Engine braking" to make a smooth deceleration.
I'm like Jaws......dont even think about it, hardly ever use the clutch for up shifts. Always use the clutch for down shifts and give a good blip of throttle when using "Engine braking" to make a smooth deceleration.
C
chuffmeister
Guest
:neenaw: u mean theres more than one gear...................
1st does the national speed limit............ save wear one the g/box R#?
1st does the national speed limit............ save wear one the g/box R#?
A
abbeytec
Guest
Its pretty obvious to me guys...Allan said:
Short-Shifting is simply changing gear earlier than you normally would.
This can be for various reasons, maybe its a tad slippery, so you dont want all 164 horses trying to tear the arse end free. Maybe you're just not in a rush, (yes, rare I know), so want to ride that bit smoother. Maybe you're carrying an inexperienced pillion and dont want 'em flying off the back, or maybe you're following a mate on a lesser machine (aren't they all compared to the 'Bird??), and you dont wanna pass him.
The point is, you can set up perfectly for any given bend, but just dont need or want all of the power available, so shift earlier for smoothness sake.
P.S. ridden all types of bike over the years, and usually upshift clutchless, and downshift with clutch, although the bird is a piece of piss to change down on without clutch.
Cheers, Guys. :beer: