Running Issues

[Mac166]

Hi, Having just joined the forum I am not sure if I am in the correct place but I will give it a try. I purchased an '02 Bird with 5000miles in september. Since then it has been back to the shop for running issues. I kept getting the ignition lights and the HISS light coming on and the engine cutting out for a few seconds before restarting again. This was 'sorted' back at the shop after a 10 day stay. I went out on it last thursday but it over revved on the exit to a round-a-bout luckily I had plenty of space to deal with it, then was missing/pinking at 5000revs. Yesterday it over revved again as I pulled away at my home spinning the machine in a 180 and threw me across the road. Has anyone else had a similar problem? I am a qualified motorcycle instructor who covers about 23000miles a year and have not come across this issue before. any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Duck n Dive]

Hi Mac166, welcome to the madhouse - presume you've been reading a bit before joining in.

Wonder if it was doing the overrev bit before the electrical problem was "fixed"?

The obvious overrev would be if the throttle cables were badly routed and getting trapped/pulled at some point when turning?

The electrical problems you mention sound like the "old" wiring loom connector block/earth problem. If so that shouldn't have taken 10 days to sort out??

I'm left wondering what they could have done anything when fixing the first problem which has created the second.........

I'm sure one of the experts will be along shortly with some helpful suggestions....


Hope you didn't do too much damage in the "off".

 

[MickB]

Sounds like a trapped cable, the ECU can only overide the mixture for cold starting not make it rev like that. If it's a "true" 02 (digital dash not a late registered analogue dash) then it wont be the connector block trouble with the cutting out problem that only affects 99-00 bikes.

 

[Mac166]

Thanks for your reply. I have a fair bit of riding experience. I used to ride into central London each day rtn trip of 80 miles in all weathers, 5 days a week then did a bit of courier work got 104000miles on a Pan. I set up a motorcycle training school 3 years ago as I needed to change my direction of life, if you know what I mean.

This behaviour of the Bird has cheesed me off a bit. it is a bike I have longed for since they were introduced and a 3 year old immaculate one with 5000miles on was adream buy for me, sadly it has been a complete drain on my enthusiasm. i have only managed to cover 500miles on it, the scary thing is I have had my kids out on the back of it.

I don't think it is a throttle cable issue as the over rev fault would occur each time I turned but it doesn't. As for the cutting out the data tool alarm got the blame, but that has been on the machine from new. It does it when riding at a constant throttle. I have a datatool veto on my Pan and it has never been a problem. When I last took it back the mechanic took it for a test ride and admitted it scared him. I will be taking it back to the shop tomorrow, the damage to the fairing and exhaust will make for an interesting discussion. I dont want the machine back until it is sorted properly.
The machine is a Honda UK spec correctly registered '02 digital clock version.
Also the day was cold but the road surface was dry without any frost or ice. it takes a bit of power to get a bike to do a 180 on a dry road. I was pulling of my drive and turning to the right. When it over revved the first time I was turning to the left exiting a round-a-bout onto a motorway slip road.

 

[Duck n Dive]

Sounds like a trapped cable, the ECU can only overide the mixture for cold starting not make it rev like that. If it's a "true" 02 (digital dash not a late registered analogue dash) then it wont be the connector block trouble with the cutting out problem that only affects 99-00 bikes.

Under the seat on the subframe there's usually a sticker confirming the model designation.... that should tell you if it's genuine 2002. The other place is sometimes the dealer doesn't remove the model/year sticker under the number plate?

If it's not the loom problem then I'd say the electrical problems were simply a duff battery!!?? (or else a wiring problem was cutting/reducing power from the battery). I have an '03 'bird and when the battery had passed it's "sell by" I got waht you describe but without the cutting out as I'd changed it before then. Had checked with a meter that chraging circuit etc was OK and then focused on the battery. Fully charged it and left it an hour and found it needed charged again - knackered. New battery and all's well again.

If the dealer had the tank off to look at the wiring and you wern't getting the problem before it would make sense if they trapped the cables putting it back on.

I've looked through the site using the search engine and I can't spot anyone having anything other than low throttle "lumpiness" - nothing about 5,000 rpm surges!! At those revs the bike is putting out a considerable amount of oompa through the wheel so it will easily spin up and out if it does it suddenly on the sort of road conditions we have at the moment.

Com on you experts..... where are you please ?????

 

[Mac166]

The 5000 rpm issue was on the motorway sitting at 80mph approx in top gear. The revs were dropping by 300 - 400 revs, sort of blipping but no warning lights.


The over rev was at low speed constant throttle. The second time was just as I exited my drive in 1st gear with gentle clutch control. It was coming round smoothly speed aprox 5 - 8 mph when it suddenly did a 180. Road surface dry and sunny.

 

[MickB]

Has the TPS been checked?, that could cause the surging if it's not set up right. If it was proper duff you'd get a fault code though.

 

[Rods]

it might be worth copying this thread into the help forum rather than the rider skills help... more peeps will see it, and it might attract the attention of either jaws or pete

 

[Mac166]

TPS? If yo mean the fault codes they didn't register any faults when it was cutting out. That was why both mechanics and shop owner took it for a test ride. all felt the fault but only one mechanic admitted it scared him.

 

[Mac166]

hi Rods,


New to this how do you do 'copy'

 

[Rods]

an administrator could probably move it - but it might be worth copying your first post, and starting a new thread in the help forum. rider skills tends to be about the riding of bikes, rather than technical issues with the bikes themselves.

welcome to the forum - i'm sorry i can't help with your problem - i'm a bit of a muppet when it comes to mechanical things - but i'm sure someone on here will be able to work something out :bow:

don't be shy and enjoy the banter :beer:

 

[Samster]

"When I last took it back the mechanic took it for a test ride and admitted it scared him"

I just can't believe that this bike shop let you ride it away after an admission like that. :bang:

 

[parttimepilot]

Hello Mac166, and welcome to the mad house.
I assume you bought your 'Bird from the dealer who "fixed" it?

If so I'd seriously consider giving them one last chance to rsolve the issues and inform them that if they fail to do so (and repair the damage caused) that you intend to reject the bike.

As you've only had it a short time and covered relatively few miles You still have consumer law on your side.

Better move quickly though, and put it all in writing.

 

[silverfox.xx]

Start from the basics, to increase speed/acceleration in the way described you have to open the throttle, so the injectors have to allow more fuel through, are all 4 opening when the problem occours, it sound like they are, therefore the injectors are either getting a throttle increase from you or an electrical signal.

Hope this points you in the right direction.

Maybe you have a faulty throttle position sensor. (think someone already said this) Have you tried to get it to have a problem on tickover - moving tank,panels,seat by pushing, wiggling, etc.

If all throttles (4) are opening it got to be a signal fault.....

You will enjoy the bike once this is over, its a probable reason why the last guy sold it... which may mean he had to not wanted to if you see what I mean. As for the dealer.. well its not fit for the purpose intended.

w4lc0m3

 

[Mac166]

Hi Silverfox.xx

Thanks for you input, the shop had the bike back for most of Dec and Jan. They put the fault down to a tight spot on the chain. I have very limited knowledge of the BB mechanices but felt that this was not the cause.

We agreed to disagree on the cause of the problem so they gave me all my money back. I purchased a silver '06 one. She is smooth and rides like a dream which only enforces my sceptacism on the cause of the last one's problems.

On a lighter note everyone including myself, thinks the silver one looks better. The big pisser was I had to purchase another baglux tank cover as the red one will not go too well with the silver BB.

 

[Rob N/West]

Bit cheeky but how much would you sell the Red baglux tank cover for, It would look nice on my 99 Carb ( hassle free ) bike

 

[Mac166]

Hi Rob,


It was brand new put on the BB a couple of weeks prior to giving the bike back to the shop.

?55 incl postage

Stu

 

[Rob N/West]

Just had a quick look on ebay , there is a black one ?50.50 + 4.50 p+p , spooky !! Do you have to take the tank off to fit it or does it just go over the outside ?

 

[marcusfordus]

baglux

goes on the outside, 2 straps on the lower tank edges, and one big one around and under the headstock.
Great bit of kit :yo: