Police Officer to re-trial

[Mac166]

Can you all remember the outcry when a police officer was recorded travelling at 159mph in his car 'to hone his skill with the new vehicle'. He got away with it at court. The DPP launched an appeal and he is now going for a retrial as a result. This will be interesting, unfortunatley for him he did the act in Shropshire I believe, not in the jurisdiction the speed freindly judge who let off that 21year old last week. Maybe he will request him for his trial.

 

[Allan]

So it begs the question, when is speeding dangerous and when isn?t it? And whose perception of ?dangerous? counts?

Many officers (myself included), have been trained to drive at such speeds and its not ?dangerous? when we are on training courses, or when applying it to a pursuit.

By law I?m allowed to drive at that speed if in connection with my job and the circumstances allow it, road conditions, traffic volume, type of vehicle etc?. so, If he was in a pursuit doing that speed would he be prosecuted?. NO

So why must he be prosecuted for driving at a speed he is allowed to travel at when getting to grips with a new vehicle?.


Surely logic dictates that it would be dangerous and reckless to jump into a car one hadn?t driven before and drive at high speeds without knowing the handling characteristics of such a vehicle?, so when and how does an officer get the chance to ?test? vehicles other than when they are at work. He cant borrow one for the day when he?s off duty can he?.

In hindsight, he could have called it in saying he was going to do it, but our regulations don?t require that of him (well they didn?t then, policy may have changed now) so in fairness what he did wasn?t wrong.


He?s trained to drive at that speed, any other time it wouldn?t be seen as dangerous, but because he wasn?t chasing someone it was, eh?. Something wrong with the system there I think.

 

[Barrie]

Getting to know the ability of a vehicle can be done under controlled conditions such as a track. Dont think for one moment that the public are stupid enough to accept that police officers can act as they wish and get away with it. This officer was blatently out of order. NO QUESTION

 

[Cyclops]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

 

[Minkey]

Guess its ok then

There is also the small matter of nearly 90mph in a thirty zone, guess thats ok as well then? d04l1ng

 

[Rolfy Dave]

Personally, I dont think the word "dangerous" comes into it...

Speeding is speeding, and thats what matters here...

If we had done that we would have been locked up straight away.. No questions... Clear road or not...

Why dont the same rules apply to the police as us ???

Yes Al, you are trained to do those speeds...We, on our blackbirds do speeds in excess of the limit most times we are out. Thats why we take advanced riding coursed/skills days/Mac courses/bikesafe, etc etc...So we are trained as well 9though not to the level of the police).

But if we get caught by a camera, then we get done. End of story.

If he was chasing a speeder, then fine.. If he was rushing an organ for transplant, then fine.... But to @familiarise@ or practice ??? Then that should be done under controlled conditions (on track- under instruction/supervision)

All I am saying is.. One set of rules for all...

BTW... Did any of you see that one of the guys who got put in prison for speeding on his motorcycle died just lately ??? he went into the back of a car whilst doing about 100mph on a country lane...RIP, but should have taken notice of Lumpys "Risk assessment" post...

Regards,

Rolfy

 

[bitontheside]

He was taking the piss and should suffer the consequences. He won't lose his job will he?

 

[R2B2]

Many officers (myself included), have been trained to drive at such speeds and its not ?dangerous? when we are on training courses, or when applying it to a pursuit.

So what you're saying Allan is with the right training it's not dangerous? So any of us can enrol in a couple of track day/training day courses and then we would be immune to prosecution "cos we've been trained therefore it's not dangerous". You couldn't be advocating one law for us and another for cops could you now!?

so when and how does an officer get the chance to ?test? vehicles other than when they are at work

Simple - On a track!

He?s trained to drive at that speed, any other time it wouldn?t be seen as dangerous, but because he wasn?t chasing someone it was, eh?. Something wrong with the system there I think.

I should say so!!! Either it's dangerous or it's not! Can't have it both ways. If anyone else got stopped at that speed by a traffic cop, would he not be wailing how dangerous it was??

 

[Centaur]

Practice

yes of course they have to practice....BUT it should be under controlled conditions......accompanied in case of rush of blood to the head....def after calling in to say when and where in case there are known road conditions such as slow loads he is not aware of and also to avoid a bored copper doing it cos he can! I don't believe he was necessarily a danger but he obviously broke some police regulation otherwise he wouldn't be in court.....perhaps he is supposed to have the blues on whilst above speed limit unless he has called in that he is covertly following someone breaking the law! Sad day anyway!

 

[Centennial Man]

This is truly a can of worms. With respect to our friends in the force, I can appreciate and accept that officers are trained to drive at such speeds and are often required to do so when on a call. I have friends that have been instructors at the Police college in Scotland, and their skills behind the wheel and on 2 wheels is stunning. I don't underestimate their abilities in any way.

My point is that when an officer is called upon to drive at high speed, isn't it best practice to warn other users by means of flashing lights and sirens? Clearly this officer didn't do this, or he would have been identified as an officer of the law going about "normal" police duties (even if he was only testing the vehicle and not in pursuit of a wrong do-er). ISTR that the worst "offence" was being caught doing 80mph in a 30mph zone. Surely this on its own would warrant some form of investigation as it shows a very poor sense of judgement of what is safe and justified in testing such a vehicle, does it not?

Andy

 

[Allan]

Nice to see the various responses here, I posted the above to open a debate and its done just that.

I didnt say what he did was right, or that he should get away with it, just was it dangerous?

Yep I agree he could have tested the vehicle on track, but do you know that none of poilce testing/training is done on track, its done on public roads!. Yep all our Grade 1&2 drivers are trained to drive at high speed on public roads.
The theroy is that this is where we shall be putting into practice what we are taught, so we do it on public roads where we learn to face and deal with the hazards on public roads. Little use learning to drive fast on a circuit and try it on public roads and suddenly find vehicles coming at you from the opposite direction, is it.

I for one have driven a police vehilce on a motorway under training in excess of 150 mph, and it wasnt dangerous. Unlike joe public who would stick to lane 1,2 or 3, we are taught to use all 3 lanes as 1 road, something just like a race circuit, funny that isnt it???

The only bit of training that isnt done on public roads is that of the skid pan. In West Mids we use the NEC car parks with a skid cradle. (A car sits in a cradle that has hydrolics and individual wheels or groups of wheels an be made to lose traction invoking a skid).

So, now you know we are taught on public roads, whats your opinion on that?

Buzz - lurvin it.

 

[Wolfie]

little boys and their toys

 

[Rolfy Dave]

Nice to see the various responses here, I posted the above to open a debate and its done just that.

I didnt say what he did was right, or that he should get away with it, just was it dangerous?

Buzz - lurvin it.

As I said Buzz, Dangerous shouldnt come into it...He was & is a highly trained high speed driver...... No problems with that...

Your training is done on public roads...... No problem with that (he will be accompanied by an instructor, who wont let him do it unless its safe to do so)

All I am saying, is that he wasnt under training or any "official" familiarisation, so he then operates under the same laws with regards to speed as we do...If we break the speed limit & get caught, then we get done for it... Same rules for all...

In another matter, I was in Peterborough the other week in the truck... I stopped at an island to let the traffic go round, and a police car went round with both the officers on their mobile phones (not radios) .. On the radio at the time was a discussion about the use & prosecution of the public doing just this...I was totally astonished by seeing this...

No disrespect to any officer on this forum, but rules are supposed to apply to everyone...

Cheers,

Rolfy
:beer:

 

[Coggy]

How does the phrase go?

"He's for it now!" sums it up nicely I think...
%$fan

 

[Jaws]

Couple of points here that might be worth raising..

Speeding is safe.. sometimes

The chap may well have been as safe as houses and genuinly 'testing' ( unlikely but lets give him the benefit )

I personally would not wish ill of anyone, and certainly not someone doing what most of us have done at one time or other, but I do think the course of action will be a great boost in police/public relations.. Shame it has to be at the expense of someones career ( maybe )..


Last obs from me.. Several times over the past years F1 and rally drivers have been nicked at speed on open empty roads

Perhaps the UK police would like to pit ALL of their drivers in Traffic against even the lowliest F1 driver or middle of the range rally driver ( I use rally as it involves a LOT of skills common to competition and normal road ! )

I somehow doubt it....and if not, then I think it would probably be wise not to labour the 'training' point, as sooner or later someone with more clout than a sad old keyboard basher is gonna pick up on the inconsistency and then anarchy really will be the rule of the day !

 

[Mac166]

Advanced driving or riding, police driving courses, Diploma in advanced riding, IAM, RoSPA or any other course teaches the participant to have a better understanding and control of their vehicle. You are taught to travel at an appropriate speed for the conditions. You are also expected to observe all speed limits. I am not trying to be on a podium and preach to others as we all bend the rules on occassions. BUT we must also take into consideration the other F**k wets who passed their piss poor driving test in the year dot and have had no further training what so ever because they 'think they are a good driver/rider'. Back to the thread on Riding Risk assessments.
Other road users rarely use mirrors, plan ahead or turn their heads when they want to change lanes, a lot don't even indicate.
Although the police officer was highly trained he should have taken this into consideration and may well have done, but I bet he would issue other road users a ticket for travelling at a far lower speed but in excess of the posted speed limits. Glass houses and stones..........mmm

 

[Jaws]

BUT we must also take into consideration the other F**k wets who passed their piss poor driving test in the year dot and have had no further training what so ever because they 'think they are a good driver/rider'. Back to the thread on Riding Risk assessments

Well that would be me then....

Must admit that recently I failed completely in running down ANY health and safety people and only just managed a mild piss take of the wanker ' I am better than you' IAM lot around here..
Perhaps some classroom work might bring those skills back to me a bit..

In the meatime as an untrained fuckwit who passed a test a million years ago, and has had no further training, I shall continue causing havoc whilst covering my average 60k per anum..

 

[Mac166]

Ok Jaws, we will just sit back and watch the fun ha ha

 

[Jaws]

LOL !

But there is actually a serious side .. What you posted and the way I answer does sort of demonstrate how careful one musy be with generalisations on a forum..

When your fat bald and way past 50 like me you rarely get miffed, but sitting back watching others get their bits in a knot over what was an innocent post sometimes does exsasperate !

 

[Fat Bert]

Agreed!!

Even if you can't spell it!!