• Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )

OK then, here is one to get you started!

T.C

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
For all you guys thinking of taking advanced training, consider the following which I wrote about 8 months ago for my monthly magazine piece!

Is Your Instructor Qualified?

In the last few years, advanced rider training has become more popular than ever before, as a result of which, an increasing number of motorcycle rider training schools have themselves jumped on the bandwagon and started to offer advanced training.

Now, the last thing I want to do is criticise those individuals who give up a lot of their spare time and do their best to make our roads a safer place, but, what I would urge, is that anyone who is contemplating taking an advanced course ensures that their instructor is suitably qualified.

At the moment, unlike CBT and Direct Access learner training, advanced rider training is unregulated. In simple terms what this means is that anyone who feels so inclined can offer advanced training, and you may not get the level of instruction that you hoped for.

There are a number of riders out there who have either taken one of the recognised advanced tests, or have attributes they consider sufficient to qualify them to teach at advanced level, when in fact riding to a standard and being able to teach to a standard can and often are miles apart.

So what are the options?

Well, you could join a local group such as those run on behalf of organisations such as RoSPA the IAM or the BMF. These groups have much to commend them in that, not only do they offer a structured training programme, but they also run a number of social events during the course of the year as well. The cost of joining these groups is relatively cheap, have a good social side and offer a recognised advanced test at the completion of what is often a 1 year course. The downside of joining such a group is that there is no guarantee as to the quality or experience of the instructor allocated to you, and as with any form of teaching there are good and bad in all organisations.

You could go to a professionally qualified instructor or training school, however costs are invariably higher as they have overheads to meet and a living to make. Being professionally qualified does not always mean that they are capable of teaching at advanced level, they may hold a certificate issued by the Driving Standards Agency authorising them to teach CBT and Direct Access, but they may not have the first idea about the requirements of an advanced test.

So, how can you ensure that your instructor is suitably qualified and can be trusted to give you the information and instruction you want? Well, quite simply by asking a few simple questions that a genuine person will normally be more than happy to answer. So what are the questions?

1. What advanced qualification(s) do they hold? Well the recognised standards are in the main Police class 1, RoSPA diploma or gold grade, IAM observer, a holder of a Btec level 3 or 4 in advanced motorcycle instruction, or belong to and instruct for a training scheme such as the BMF Blue Ribband.

2. How many students do they teach at advanced level? If they only teach one or two perhaps there is something you need to know about.

3. What advanced test do they recommend? If you are talking to a RoSPA or IAM group, then this will not be a relevant question, but it will be relevant if you are talking to an independent instructor. If they favour one test over another, what sort of results have they had over the previous 12 months?

4. What type of course do they offer? What you want to see is whether they have actually structured a course syllabus, or whether it is something they have just cobbled together ad hoc whilst talking to you on the phone.

5. What formal training have they done to attain their current position? Some are self taught and believe that is sufficient, I have even heard of one guy who believes that 10 years as a courier is sufficient on the basis that having survived for so long he must be doing something right. Ex racers are often the worst offenders, and are of the belief that race craft is a good aid to staying alive on the road.

6. Can they provide references? Perhaps past students or organisations they are affiliated to? Recommendation and approval from your peers is often the best form of advertising.

7. Do they get their own riding and instructional ability checked on a regular basis? Many don?t and end up teaching dangerous practices.

Although not a definitive list, it should at least give you the opportunity to make your own mind up whether the person you are talking to is in fact someone you would trust to teach you what for many is a completely different way of riding. If you have any doubts, walk away, there are plenty more qualified fish in the sea.
 
G

Gerrard

Guest
Exhausts

Hi Guys
Not sure if this is the right place or not, so here go's.
As the BB is not to loud any thoughts on what aftermarket cans I could use and I don't want to rejet if poss... and its an 04 model.Any Ideas.
Paul.
 
C

chuck

Guest
Graphite.ES said:
Hi Guys
Not sure if this is the right place or not, so here go's.
As the BB is not to loud any thoughts on what aftermarket cans I could use and I don't want to rejet if poss... and its an 04 model.Any Ideas.
Paul.

I'd place this question on main coffee shop forum..you will get plenty of feed back. Can't help myself..I have OE
 
C

chuck

Guest
Quite agree

T.C said:
Is Your Instructor Qualified?...but, what I would urge, is that anyone who is contemplating taking an advanced course ensures that their instructor is suitably qualified.....Well, you could join a local group such as those run on behalf of organisations such as RoSPA the IAM or the BMF.......

A lot of people take the piss out of IAM but 3 years ago I joined Birmingham Advanced M/c and wanted to take my IAM test. Thought I knew it all. I didn't!! Was assigned to a police class 1 instructer as my observer. Improved my observation and safety hugely in only 3 sessions. I think the police riders are the best around BY FAR
 

T.C

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
chuck said:
A lot of people take the piss out of IAM but 3 years ago I joined Birmingham Advanced M/c and wanted to take my IAM test. Thought I knew it all. I didn't!! Was assigned to a police class 1 instructer as my observer. Improved my observation and safety hugely in only 3 sessions. I think the police riders are the best around BY FAR

Where you at the presentation I did to Birmingham Advanced M/C's I did last month at the police Training centre on the Pershore Road?
 

Bob Pinder

Registered User
Thanks TC

And just to expand you could ask your proposed trainer/instructor what insurance cover they have................................
 
B

Bobsilverbird

Guest
Just what cover

In respose to Mr. Pinder unless things have changed? As an OBSERVER you did not require any specific insurance. This falls outside of the DSA training scope. Anyone who thinks that they can ride can take other people on the road as an observer and offer advice. Reading this quickly I spotted something about numbers, all GOOD advanced training is on a one to one level.
Do you agree Mr. Pinder
 

T.C

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
Bobsilverbird said:
In respose to Mr. Pinder unless things have changed? As an OBSERVER you did not require any specific insurance. This falls outside of the DSA training scope. Anyone who thinks that they can ride can take other people on the road as an observer and offer advice. Reading this quickly I spotted something about numbers, all GOOD advanced training is on a one to one level.
Do you agree Mr. Pinder

You don't require specific public liability insurance, but even as an observer, if you give advice and it goes pear shaped, you will be held liable. The courts have deemed that observing even in a part time capacity is instructing (in other words there is no difference), and just because it falls outside the scope of the DSA (at the moment, although this is soon to change) makes no difference.

Not all advanced training is on a 1:1 basis, it can be 2:1 particularly on full day training sessions. If it is 2:1 or even 3:1 (although this would be the maximum for a full day) does not mean that you will not get quality training, providing it has been structured properly.
 
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Bobsilverbird

Guest
Timing

T C We are talking about the present here and not what is in the future.
I have seen a similar reply on the observer / instructor thing before.
So now lets move to the future are you hinting that to be an advanced instructor you will need a DSA approval and if so will this be the order of things to come.
Start: Get trained to do CBT Training Next Go to Cardington and PASS to Downtrain new instructors. (Get C in instructor number) Return to Cardington to do DAS (Get D in instructor number) and then get another qualification to train at an advanced level. All of the above do not include your riding ability, just a level of observation, fault finding and competance at delivering short lesssons or on a full day road ride smaller bits of information to get candidates up to test standard. i.e. They are taught how to pass a test.
That will put a lot of so called instructors out of work.
What do you think of that?
 

T.C

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
Bobsilverbird said:
T C We are talking about the present here and not what is in the future.
I have seen a similar reply on the observer / instructor thing before.
So now lets move to the future are you hinting that to be an advanced instructor you will need a DSA approval and if so will this be the order of things to come.
Start: Get trained to do CBT Training Next Go to Cardington and PASS to Downtrain new instructors. (Get C in instructor number) Return to Cardington to do DAS (Get D in instructor number) and then get another qualification to train at an advanced level. All of the above do not include your riding ability, just a level of observation, fault finding and competance at delivering short lesssons or on a full day road ride smaller bits of information to get candidates up to test standard. i.e. They are taught how to pass a test.
That will put a lot of so called instructors out of work.
What do you think of that?

Absolutely right, and tt is going to happen. The register of advanced instructors as Bob will no doubt testify to, is being formulated as we speak.

The DSA will regulate who is allowed to conduct advanced training just as they do for CBT and DAS now, and to go onto the register you will either have to hold a recognised qualification from an outside source that is approved by the DSA (as both Bob and I do) or go to Cardington and do the DSA course.

It will put some instructors out of work, but hopefully those that shouldn't be instructing at advanced level in the first place (and I can give you a list as long as your arm), in other words it will get rid of the wasters and retain those who have put themselves out to ensure that both their riding and instructional ability are right!
 
B

Bobsilverbird

Guest
Hornets nest

T C Good reply you have got some good info that has NOT yet got to our training school.

[B]So what else will I need other than those mentioned and my Gold?[/B]
 
C

chuck

Guest
TC

T.C said:
Where you at the presentation I did to Birmingham Advanced M/C's I did last month at the police Training centre on the Pershore Road?

I was on holiday and missed it unfortunately.
 

Minkey

Ok it was me
Club Sponsor
The DSA

When the DSA started talking about training types needing DSA qualifications it included any one who charged for training. So whether you were bike car or anything else you would need those qualifications even on track days. This may or may not be still the case

An interesting thing is that at the moment you would only need a driving licence to train heavy goods drivers, no DSA qualification needed.

Did you know that on car tests only one third of tests actually do an emergency stop, the examiners apparently get whiplash if they actually check that all drivers can actually stop their cars quickly.

g0551p
 
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