DA's Journey to Jerez

[D.S.]

Hi Paul, I?m mighty glad I didn?t miss this season?s opener ?

I didn't mind missing it 'cos we got to have lunch with Paul & Trudi whilst sat in the sun at Heradura, although I could've done without my own personal rendition of Rossi's off the day before

 

[Gerrard]

Sunday

I didn't mind missing it 'cos we got to have lunch with Paul & Trudi whilst sat in the sun at Heradura, although I could've done without my own personal rendition of Rossi's off the day before

Splendid old chap.... Splendid. g0551p

 

[Dark Angel]

In the modern GPs as we know them, the only 2 riders I thought that ever used to clear off with any regularity were Schwantz and Doohan

It's an interesting point...but Rossi has won consistently on all types and sizes of machinery - in the dry and in the wet - whether he was on the (allegedly) "best" machinery or not. For me, only Mike Hailwood comes close in terms of outright riding ability and determination (but he was a disaster when it came to setting up or developing a bike!).

Doohan was the man who would do anything to win, regardless of the cost to himself, but I'm convinced that other riders were intimidated, not only by the greatness of the man, but also by his out-and-out ruthlesness. Rossi - as he has shown, time and time again, is not intimidated or phased by anything or anyone. He took on Honda, singlehandedly, and beat the mightiest and proudest manufacturer of them all - not as a "one-off" victory, but for two years in succession! On the racetrack he takes on all-comers without fear or favour, and his battles with Biaggi and Gibernau are now part of motorcycle GP racing folklore

He's done everything that was asked or expected of him in every category of his chosen sport. That's why I believe that Rossi is king!

 

[RHINO]

I'll echo DA's views.

Rossi is a showman too who can back up his well thought out comments.
He's not affraid of trying new things AND he won't give up.

There are loads of good riders but none with the full package like him.

 

[Gerrard]

Rossi.

DA...
True and good words indeed matey :bow: But IMHO the flaw is.... singlehandedly. He was not alone he had Gerry Burgess.
Had he gone without him, you might of been right.
Not a bad rider though....

 

[Dark Angel]

Cor, STRIKE a LIGHT, Paul! You dunnarf wind me up, M8!!

BUT - at least, according to your own logic - Doohan would've been crap without Burgess, too! No matter how hard I try I couldn't bring myself to believe that was the case!

Go and have another "think" about it - you'll see it my way, soon enough!

Vale is the best, and that's all there is to it!! :neenaw:

 

[Gerrard]

Cor, STRIKE a LIGHT, Paul! You dunnarf wind me up, M8!!

BUT - at least, according to your own logic - Doohan would've been crap without Burgess, too! No matter how hard I try I couldn't bring myself to believe that was the case!

Go and have another "think" about it - you'll see it my way, soon enough!

Vale is the best, and that's all there is to it!! :neenaw:

Hi DA.
The Doohan/ Burgess thing has never been a issue, as Doohan was quite happy where he was with Honda, it only became an issue when Rossi left Honda and joined Yamaha and took Burgess with him and I believe paid some of Burgess wages out of his own pocket.
But logic doesn't always work - here's why.
In comparison Doohan/Burgess....Rossi/Burgess not a lot to choose from either combination your vote is for Rossi and mine is Doohan but could either of done what they have without Burgess??
Doohan won his first championship in 94 with Burgess (although he was racing years before that), Rossi and Burgess are both in their own way brilliant so you just have to choose which wins in your own mind by a margin, but Rainey and Schwantz never had the services of a technician of the calibre of Burgess to fall back on so they are masters of the field for going it alone so to speak, so how good are they as Doohan never won a championship while they were around?
Don't know if this sound how I mean it to!!

Zippo

 

[Oldbull]

Rossi or Doohan never had burgess around when they won the lower classes ..

have to agree tho that Burgess is the best around at the moment at what he does..

It took Doohan a lot lot longer and a few bad smashes before he started to dominate .. Rossi done it from the Off in every class hes been in on any bike..

dont forget he rode the screamer and big bang strokers to race wins as well :bow::bow:

not really fair to compare because they are all gods in there own time but Rossi and Mike the bike were capable of winning on anything without seemingly trying to hard ... natural abillity

eg .. absolutley NO ONE is trying harder in GPs at the mo than James Ellison .. put Rossi on his bike now, without touching a setting at all and will he go faster .... my point being its not all about effort the lads just a natural


hehe found the soap box again sorry

 

[Dark Angel]

...could either of done what they have without Burgess?

Honestly, I believe that Burgess answered this when asked by a reporter about Rossi?s abilities; Burgess replied:

?Valentino is a genius?People should never forget that??

Rainey and Schwantz never had the services of a technician of the calibre of Burgess to fall back on so they are masters of the field for going it alone so to speak?

For an answer here, I?d look at the available technology, the development budgets and capabilities of each team (e.g., Honda versus Yamaha), the technological backup (expertise) available and the rider skill/input.

Valentino Rossi = Aprillia (125), Aprillia (250), Honda (500), Honda (MotoGP), Yamaha (MotoGP) :yo: :bow:

Mike Hailwood = NSU, Ducati, MV, Paton, Mondial, EMC, Honda (125), MV (200) NSU/Mondial/Honda/MZ/Yamaha (250), AJS, Honda, MV, MZ, Norton (350), Honda, MV, MZ, Norton, Suzuki, Yamaha (500), Triumph (650), Ducati (864) :bow:

Mick Doohan = Honda (500) :bow:

Available technology: Hailwood used it ALL
Rossi uses the ?best? and the ?worst? to excellent effect

Development budget: Rossi gives best value per unit of investment

Capabilities: Doohan?s dour approach hides a ?burnout? mentality (=serious crashes).
Rossi and Hailwood?s psychologies display ?long-term durability?

Expertise: See Burgess quote and add: ?It?s 90% Valentino and 10% team? (Burgess)

Rider input: Hailwood setup skills = zero. Rossi: see above

Finally, because we?re talking about racing, look at the physical/mental condition of the protagonists. Look at their comparative ages and motivations. Look at the pressures they must withstand while competing successfully and, finally, look at their lap times.

I rest my case.

HAIL, VALE!! :bow:

 

[Gerrard]

GPs

Honestly, I believe that Burgess answered this when asked by a reporter about Rossi?s abilities; Burgess replied:

?Valentino is a genius?People should never forget that??



For an answer here, I?d look at the available technology, the development budgets and capabilities of each team (e.g., Honda versus Yamaha), the technological backup (expertise) available and the rider skill/input.

Valentino Rossi = Aprillia (125), Aprillia (250), Honda (500), Honda (MotoGP), Yamaha (MotoGP) :yo: :bow:

Mike Hailwood = NSU, Ducati, MV, Paton, Mondial, EMC, Honda (125), MV (200) NSU/Mondial/Honda/MZ/Yamaha (250), AJS, Honda, MV, MZ, Norton (350), Honda, MV, MZ, Norton, Suzuki, Yamaha (500), Triumph (650), Ducati (864) :bow:

Mick Doohan = Honda (500) :bow:

Available technology: Hailwood used it ALL
Rossi uses the ?best? and the ?worst? to excellent effect

Development budget: Rossi gives best value per unit of investment

Capabilities: Doohan?s dour approach hides a ?burnout? mentality (=serious crashes).
Rossi and Hailwood?s psychologies display ?long-term durability?

Expertise: See Burgess quote and add: ?It?s 90% Valentino and 10% team? (Burgess)

Rider input: Hailwood setup skills = zero. Rossi: see above

Finally, because we?re talking about racing, look at the physical/mental condition of the protagonists. Look at their comparative ages and motivations. Look at the pressures they must withstand while competing successfully and, finally, look at their lap times.

I rest my case.

HAIL, VALE!! :bow:

Your Honor...
I refer you too my original question - If it was as Burgess as said 90% Valentino and 10% Burgess, why did Rossi have to take Burgess with him?Surely a man of such talent as you discribe shouldn't need Burgess at all?
If Burgess did in fact say that, then I think he's telling porkies, as the way I see it 12 wins a season to everyone elses 1 or 2 wins is a bigger margin than 10%. QED... must go, the wig is giving me hives!!
Paul

 

[Dark Angel]

M?Lud,

My honourable friend, Graphite, is fully-aware of the need for consistency and continuity where racing matters are concerned. The very fact that, at the end of each season, riders, teams and team leaders are offered contracts to ensure continuity seems to have escaped him! Rossi, in his genius, fully-recognised the importance of his team, and he has always asserted that the human factor in racing is the crucial element when it comes to victory or defeat. Why, then, should we be surprised that he chose, upon leaving Honda, to take his support team with him?

As for the status of the relationship between rider and team, this was illustrated recently by Colin Edwards, who, in his second year with Yamaha, revealed the importance of working in familiar surroundings with familiar people: ?Usually, at this time, I?m still trying to learn people?s names! This is the first time in MotoGP that I've begun the season on the same bike and with the same team so I'm way ahead of where I have been every other year. I'm really looking forward to the new season!"
p0pc0rn41
The team is the ?family? that supports every competitor, and, as we saw at Jerez, there is no greater rider or competitor than Valentino Rossi who, despite crashing at the first corner, completed the race with no rear brake, no right footrest and a broken front brake lever. The fastest lap of the race was set at 1.41.248 by Loris Capirossi , while Rossi, on a damaged machine, set his own fastest lap at 1.42.184 ? less than one second slower ? but still 0.361 of a second faster than his team mate and only 0.023 of a second slower than the fastest Yamaha rider of the day, Carlos Checa.

Let those who wish to speculate further upon the uniqueness of Rossi?s talents continue to do so, M?Lud: but we must leave it the jury to consider this case on the merits, the facts and the figures supporting my claim that Vale is, indeed, the greatest? d34l

?(but he?s not a God!)

 

[Gerrard]

The Court of....

M?Lud,

My honourable friend, Graphite, is fully-aware of the need for consistency and continuity where racing matters are concerned. The very fact that, at the end of each season, riders, teams and team leaders are offered contracts to ensure continuity seems to have escaped him! Rossi, in his genius, fully-recognised the importance of his team, and he has always asserted that the human factor in racing is the crucial element when it comes to victory or defeat. Why, then, should we be surprised that he chose, upon leaving Honda, to take his support team with him?

As for the status of the relationship between rider and team, this was illustrated recently by Colin Edwards, who, in his second year with Yamaha, revealed the importance of working in familiar surroundings with familiar people: ?Usually, at this time, I?m still trying to learn people?s names! This is the first time in MotoGP that I've begun the season on the same bike and with the same team so I'm way ahead of where I have been every other year. I'm really looking forward to the new season!"
p0pc0rn41
The team is the ?family? that supports every competitor, and, as we saw at Jerez, there is no greater rider or competitor than Valentino Rossi who, despite crashing at the first corner, completed the race with no rear brake, no right footrest and a broken front brake lever. The fastest lap of the race was set at 1.41.248 by Loris Capirossi , while Rossi, on a damaged machine, set his own fastest lap at 1.42.184 ? less than one second slower ? but still 0.361 of a second faster than his team mate and only 0.023 of a second slower than the fastest Yamaha rider of the day, Carlos Checa.

Let those who wish to speculate further upon the uniqueness of Rossi?s talents continue to do so, M?Lud: but we must leave it the jury to consider this case on the merits, the facts and the figures supporting my claim that Vale is, indeed, the greatest? d34l

?(but he?s not a God!)

Your Honour and Worshipfulness.

As indeed you are a gentlenam and a scollop, and let no one tell you any different, come to that your greatness, should I ever need counseling you and you alone would be my council.
I have taken your words on board and they have amused me greatly, we must stand our corner as the true protagonists we are d04l1ng , but to be honest my fingers are through to the bone with all this typing and my din dins is ready so I will talk later.. at great length and with much fuel for the fire.
I remain
in deepest humbleness (with my fingers crossed)
bowing deeply to your high esteem :bow:
and lots of lurve
Paul !!!

 

[Dark Angel]

in deepest humbleness (with my fingers crossed)
bowing deeply to your high esteem :bow:
and lots of lurve
Paul !!!

:yo:

fl4g71

:k