Brake Problems

[russ_fae_fyvie]

OK, who's an expert in the braking department !

I had a nice simple job of replacing all the pads, front and rear which seemed to go well.

That was until I tried to pump the rear brake pedal, basically fook all is happening and I can feel there is no pressure behind it. The front ones seem fine but the front brake lever doesn't do bugger all to the rear for some reason.

When I changed the pads I didn't disconnect any hoses, etc, so I can't see whats happened :dunno:

I did notice however that one of tthe rear pistons popped out and fliud appeared, until I put it back in again.

I can feel sod all on the pedal itself, not even to bleed them, usually you'd expect to feel something even if its only a little bit of pressure.

So, what the fook have I done, any ideas ?????
:dunno: :dunno:

 

[mikew]

Originally posted by russ_fae_fyvie
That was until I tried to pump the rear brake pedal, basically fook all is happening and I can feel there is no pressure behind it. The front ones seem fine but the front brake lever doesn't do bugger all to the rear for some reason.

I did notice however that one of tthe rear pistons popped out and fliud appeared, until I put it back in again.
:dunno: :dunno:

Russ, first thing is . the front brake lever itself does not operate the rear brake, this is done via the front left caliper gripping the disc and moving upwards slightly when the front brakes are applied, and this action then activates a second "master cylinder" (mounted above the front left caliper). It is this cylinder which brings on the rear brake. So pulling the front lever will not bring on the rear brake, but pushing the front left caliper upwards will. Try it.

Secondly, if you have popped out a piston from the rear caliper, you will have to bleed the system, it only takes a little bit of air to screw up your brakes and give no pressure.

Don't forget, your brakes are the last thing between you and the scenery !!!

hope this is of some guidance, cos bleedin the 'Bird brakes are a PIG !!!



regards

Mike

 

[reefer]

thats intresting:bow:
so what brings on the front brake when you apply the rear pedal:dunno: :bow:

 

[fat bert]

Bugger~~

Don't start Cyclops on about "bleeding brakes" again!!

Cyclops Repairs and Parts - "We're CRAP"

 

[Jaws]

Originally posted by reefer
thats intresting:bow:
so what brings on the front brake when you apply the rear pedal:dunno: :bow:

From memory there is a one way valve on the rear brake line Reefer..

 

[PsychoBikerBen]

What do you expect ???????

I did notice however that one of tthe rear pistons popped out and fliud appeared, until I put it back in again.

DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,DOH !,

 

[Paddy Dougan]

cheer up Russ, the brakes really are easy to sort out, follow ins below:
top up rear resivoir, using the rear pedal
in this order, bleed (you do not need a special bleeder, but it does make it easier, I don`t use one)
1.front right caliper, middle bleed nipple
2.front left, middle nipple
3.rear, middle nipple
4.rear outside nipple.

Hope this helps, if you still have problems let me know.
REMEMBER, YOU HAVE LET AIR INTO THE SYSTEM AT A PRIMARY POINT so you MUST bleed the complete system using dot 4, it does take quite a bit of fluid, owing to the length of the lines. Your system on the front calipers is seperate and does not need bleeding. But if you wish to do this as well (advisable) let me know, will forward the ins,
Good luck,
Paddy.:neenaw:

 

[russ_fae_fyvie]

Marvellous !

Cheers guys, I know what next weekend's job is gonna be now !!

Think I'll stick to putting oil into the tyres and air in the engine, or is it......................... :neenaw:

 

[ianrobbo1]

ey oop russ

stopped of at dave ''p'' on the way to cleethorps on sunday,and had a gander at his ''de link'' set up, and I'm sure he wont mind me telling you that it look's the doggys danglys, and from our conversation about said set up, I have made up my mind to get a similar job on mine, I dont know if dave has access to a digi camera, but a few piccys would certanly not go amiss, and as he pointed out, the servicing costs have got to be cheaper as its reverting to a standard ''any idiot'' can bleed set up, no rubber pipes to buy every two years, cheaper rear pads{you dont have to use them} and dave assures me they stop very very quickly.
they didnt take much selling to me LOL but I've got to sell the set up to she who must be obeyed :k
wish me luck

 

[russ_fae_fyvie]

yo !

I had been thinking along similar lines recenlty, especially as the bike is now 4 1/2 years old, those brake lines can't be far off needing replacement anyway, let me know what excuse you use on your missus cos I'll try the same one !

Just a general thought, I know Honda are renowned for their engineering expertise, BUT, as an engineer myself with (too) many years Hydraulic experience (subsea stuff) I think they have made a real cats arse of the calipers (or whoever they get them from) if it's possible to pop out the 'rod' and expose the hydraulic system to atmosphere, can't exactly call it a 'closed' system now can thay ! I have NEVER come across any Hydraulic ram (which is essentially what it is) where you can extend it right out of the body, it is pure stupidity, on a simpler note, how many car jacks do you see that can do that ?!

Anyone got any comments (no, not that!)

Anyoldway, rant over !! :yo:

 

[PsychoBikerBen]

Most if not all bike calipers

can have the pistons pumped out of the main body.This is not exclusive to Honda .

 

[russ_fae_fyvie]

Maybe Ben

But it still doesn't make it right or good engineering practice !

 

[PsychoBikerBen]

I hear what ya sayin' geezer

I know-In a perfect world etc,etc
But I guess the design is suposed to be as simple as possible(less parts to be made)
I thought it was common knowledge to make sure ya don't pump the levers when pads are removed and calipurs are off.If folk where ever about when I've done pad changes-I always tape a small block of wood between front lever and throttle,cos it's amaising how ya mates like to squeeze levers and flick switches when they're casually leanin' against ya machine and waffling away about the day when ya doin' something crusial.
Fact is,you should be pushing the piston in,not out(if ya need to) when fitting new pads.And if ya bleeding your system-then calipurs and pads should have been re-installed so the disc stops the pistons poppin' out.
I don't want to come across as being flippent,Cos your the engineer in hydraulics but bike calipers are not heavy duty industrial or subsea items.
I'll go away now,back to mi dark corner & take some more pills:B

 

[russ_fae_fyvie]

Yeah

This is the first time it's happened to me in all the years I've been changing pads, it came about cos I forgot the fookin system was linked and was happliy pumping the front lever and pushing down on the forks after installing the front pads while totally forgetting it would push out one of the rear pistons, DOH !!!

I won't do that again in a hurry !!

Maybe I'll have alook at the 321 conversion for the future !!

:neenaw:

 

[PsychoBikerBen]

I bet ya not the first to be cought out by the dual system.Especially when ya used to the standard ,or 'normal' brake set up of 98% of the rest of the worlds bikes.
Ah well,these things happen.
Bloody HONDA:} :}
Sorry again for 'chopsin' on:beer:

 

[D.S.]

The linked system Seb sell's at 321 not only looks the dogs danglies

but braking effeciency is significantly improved, however a couple of things to bear in my mind:
1. If ya bike is still under warranty and you de-link, obvioulsy Honda won't won't fix anything to do with ya brakes under warranty;
2. Insurance. You may decide not to inform ya insurers & I know Seb has been in contact with numerous insurers in order to establish their position in respect of this mod, however it might be worth checking with ya insurers before ya go ahead with the de-link;
3. Given that braking efficiency is significantly improved, ya need to take time getting used to it and used de-linked brakes again. You won't be able to take the liberty's you may or may not be currently taking with the linked system;
4. Having said all that and having ridden a de-linked BB, if I was keeping my bike I would get 'em de-linked upon the warranty expiring & 321's latest look brilliant too.

 

[Amsterdam]

Russ, how far do...

the pistons move before they drop out ??

I ask coz when I change pads I always pump them out about 5mm to clean the 3-4mm of crap off the ends of the pistons. I'm always concerned that I'll 'do a Russ'

I dont think I've found a brake caliper yet (bike or car) where the piston is retained?

Amsterdam

 

[russ_fae_fyvie]

Oh fook !!

So I'm infamous now !!

All for the wrong reasons as well, being a plonker !!:neenaw:

It came out a fair way Amsterdam, in fact the only reason I noticed it was when the brake fluid started to appear on the garage floor cos I was too busy looking up at the front end !!

It was definately more than 5mm tho !!


:blush:

 

[Amsterdam]

No piss take...

intended m8 :}

I always gota remind mesel on the BB if I've got both sets of pads out you need to put 'keepers' in the calipers coz you'll proly end up dumping the front pistons when yer working with the rear brakes - and vice versa...

Amsterdam

 

[ALonaBIRD]

Best way i can think of to stop popping pistons from callipers is to do them one at a time (cos i only got one set of hands :} )

This way the discs and pads keep the other pistons in place cos i sure hate bleeding brakes and i havent even thought about bleeding the birds brakes ......... at least not until i get an adaptor plate for my pressurised bleeder :yo: