10 point deduction

[Duck n Dive]

Listening on TV yesterday some of the supporters were making the point that the management that made those decisions had now left so it was unfair to punish the club.

Sadly in the world of business it doesn't work that way.

Maybe they should have made sure the previous management team contracts allowed clawback or recovery for stuff like this.

I once reported to the company finance manager.
When he wanted some numbers worked up rapidly and I said it would take a little longer to ensure accuracy The response was "it doesn't matter, we'll both be long gone by the time anyone questions it ".
I stuck to my way, plus I was still there waaay longer than him.

 

[andyBeaker]

Latest update on this is that Manchester City’s lawyers have lodged a claim for the ten points that Everton have been deducted.

 

[derek kelly]

It is an assumption, i may be right, I may be wrong. It is the first case of it’s type so no precedent to follow.

Personally I think they should be relegated but that’s probably as I was on the wrong end of bottles and other stuff being thrown into the away section last time I was at Goodson Park

To be fair even your home fans throw bottles at you.

 

[Malone]

To be fair even your home fans throw bottles at you.

Do they remove the teats and empty all the milk out first?

 

[andyBeaker]

Everton have admitted breaking ffp but tried to underplay by how much, Leicester will be very much aggrieved & rightly so & will likely be seeking compensation.
As far as I’m aware Man City & Chelsea are still being investigated & there is talk of a two division relegation if found guilty.
As regards to using other clubs as a yard stick, it doesn’t work, Leeds went into administration & received a 15 point deduction followed by a ten point deduction, no other club has been so heavily penalised for going into administration, at the time as I recall there were only four teams out of the whole four divisions that supported Leeds appeal.
As Everton have been found guilty of cheating they should just suck it up & realise they’ve got off lightly, they should have received a transfer ban.

My recollection Leeds committed a number of offences around insolvency law with significant Impact on creditors. They were very, very naughty. You may recall that there was a vote to expel them from the league and whilst Leeds survived this a number of clubs voted against them.

 

[derek kelly]

My recollection Leeds committed a number of offences around insolvency law with significant Impact on creditors. They were very, very naughty. You may recall that there was a vote to expel them from the league and whilst Leeds survived this a number of clubs voted against them.

They were deducted ten points for going into administration, followed by a further 15 points for (in their opinion) coming out of administration illegally, didn’t realise there was an illegal way to come out of administration, memories a bit vague but I believe most of the creditors were paid with promises made to the ones that weren’t, I don’t know if the promises were honoured, knowing Ken Bates I’d say probably not.
I don’t remember expulsion being an option.

 

[andyBeaker]

 

[derek kelly]

Why are people assuming Man City & Chelsea have got away with it?

 

[andyBeaker]

Why are people assuming Man City & Chelsea have got away with it?

Because they have the best lawyers.

 

[andyBeaker]

They were deducted ten points for going into administration, followed by a further 15 points for (in their opinion) coming out of administration illegally, didn’t realise there was an illegal way to come out of administration, memories a bit vague but I believe most of the creditors were paid with promises made to the ones that weren’t, I don’t know if the promises were honoured, knowing Ken Bates I’d say probably not.
I don’t remember expulsion being an option.

2007-08: Leeds United (15 points) - failure to exit administration correctly​

The summer of 2007 was a doubtful one for Leeds, with the club having previously been in administration in 2003-04.

They failed to agree a company voluntary arrangement with their creditors and were therefore put up for an expulsion vote - the first club to suffer the fate since Barnet in 1993.

Other clubs voted for Leeds to retain their status but, just six years after playing in a Champions League semi-final, they were handed a 15-point deduction.

 

[derek kelly]

2007-08: Leeds United (15 points) - failure to exit administration correctly​

The summer of 2007 was a doubtful one for Leeds, with the club having previously been in administration in 2003-04.

They failed to agree a company voluntary arrangement with their creditors and were therefore put up for an expulsion vote - the first club to suffer the fate since Barnet in 1993.

Other clubs voted for Leeds to retain their status but, just six years after playing in a Champions League semi-final, they were handed a 15-point deduction.

That’s bollocks, clubs need the funds to buy shares I believe it’s called a cva agreement, Leeds struggled with this & were threatened that if they couldn’t provide the funds for the shares they would be expelled as would any club, the chairmen’s vote was only on the 15 point deduction.

 

[Duck n Dive]

Under UK insolvency law an insolvent company can enter into a company voluntary arrangement (CVA). The CVA is a form of composition, similar to the personal IVA (individual voluntary arrangement), where an insolvency procedure allows a company with debt problems or that is insolvent to reach a voluntary agreement with its business creditors regarding repayment of all, or part of its corporate debts over an agreed period of time.[citation needed] The application for a CVA can be made by the agreement of all directors of the company, the legal administrators of the company, or the appointed company liquidator.[1

 

[Duck n Dive]

A company voluntary arrangement can only be implemented by an insolvency practitioner who will draft a proposal for the creditors. A meeting of creditors is held to see if the CVA is accepted. As long as 75% (by debt value) of the creditors who vote agree then the CVA is accepted. All the company creditors are then bound to the terms of the proposal whether or not they voted. Creditors are also unable to commence further legal action as long as the terms are adhered to, and existing legal action such as a winding-up order ceases.[2]

During the CVA, payments are made in a single monthly amount paid to the insolvency practitioner. The fees charged by the insolvency practitioner will be deducted from these payments. The company is not required to fund any further costs. Companies House will register the fact the company is entering into a CVA and there will be a recording of it on its credit file.

 

[andyBeaker]

If anyone is interested here is a link to the independent commission’s report.

in (my!) summary Everton were repeatedly warned about their transfer activity on the impact of FPSR, they changed their story in a number of areas to try and obtain a benefit, their business was run recklessly (gambling on league positions and over inflated potential transfer values), attempted to claim that not deductible expenses should form part of the FPSR calculation and, perhaps most tellingly, put themselves in a position where by their own actions disclosed that they either lied to their bankers or to the Premier League…if not both.

https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2023/11/17/49989e4e-01a2-44f9-a012-c3a31ae5536b/2023-11-17-Premier-League-v-Everton-FC-Decision-for-Publication.pdf