• Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )

WTF !!!

Jaws

Corporal CockUp
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
So, very soon the police can issue on the spot fines for the following:

Tailgating (driving too close to the vehicle in front
Failing to give way at a junction
Overtaking before pulling back into a queue of traffic
Being in the wrong lane and pushing into a queue on a roundabout
Hogging the middle/outside lanes on motorways/dual carriageway
Inappropriate speed
Wheel-spins, handbrake turns etc.

The first I have highlighted I just do not even understand !!!

The next means god forbid you make an error in your navigation..

The last.. well this is proly the worst one.. Who is going to decide what speed is inappropriate ? An officer obviously.. but say he has had a bad day or whatever..
I have been told these are likely to be absolute offences same as speeding so no excuse or defence then
 
J

JonBoy68

Guest
Do you know how the police calculate speed ?
 

T.C

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
To be honest, most of those offences have always been there, it is called careless or dangerous driving, but I think the difference is going to be that a lot of cases will be contested far more than they are now as it will come down to a matter of opinion, and because we don't have as many professional traffic cops as we used to, their judgement is certainly going to be questioned.
 
B

Boggymarsh

Guest
I have been aware of these proposed additions to the Fixed Penalty Scheme since it was announced in the press some two weeks ago but we have not had ANY notification or information at work at this present time.

Fixed Penalty Notices are used to enforce specific pieces of legislation and are only issued when the defendant accepts their guilt and chooses to accept the fixed penalty. Once issued the onus is then on that individual to (a) cough up the fine and, where required, comply with the condition of surrendering their driving licence for the application of points OR (b) notify the police that they wish to take the matter to trial at court. If the defendant fails to do either of those things then after 28 days the matter is then returned to the issuing officer for case building and the subsequent issue of a summons to court.

It is interesting to see the proposed list of punishable acts but what is not clear is whether these will become individual offences under the various pieces of Road Traffic legislation or whether they will fall under the collective of "Careless and Inconsiderate Driving" or perhaps even Dangerous Driving. At this current time neither offences can be dealt with by FPN and are dealt with by Reporting for Summons or even arrest!

It is my view that there is no need for new legislation as there are already these statutory levels of driving standards; it follows that where a level of driving is found to fall below one of these acceptable standards then a person will have been found guilty of one of these offences and will receive the appropriate level of punishment accordingly.

If new offences are going to be created then each one will have to have attached a list of factors that must be present to prove the offence - in the trade we call them "points to prove." If all the points to prove are present then, as with most traffic offences, the offence could be classed as "absolute" and could be dealt with by issuing a FPN. Clearly, the legislators would have to look at whether existing statutory defences would apply or would perhaps have to create them, look at existing case law and every other matter that may. affect the new piece of legislation. Once written there is then the lengthy and complex process of making the new offence law and so it can be seen that this is not something that happens overnight.

Without too much effort I could make a theoretical but realistic case of Careless and Inconsiderate Driving for everything in the list. Equally I could probably even make a case of Dangerous driving but the crux of the matter is that currently it is only a court that can determine if the level of driving falls below the statutory levels and this is where I cannot see that it is appropriate to be letting these matters be dealt with by FPN. The cynic within me can only see this is as a means to save court time and therefor money and does not actually deal with what is a potentially serious matter that should be dealt with by the courts.

It's late, I'm knackered and need my beauty sleep but hopefully you will get my gist. If it doesn't make any sense then I will address this when I have got a fresh mind.
 

Jaws

Corporal CockUp
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
Thanks guys.. but perhaps someone could explain the first I have highlighted ?
 
B

Boggymarsh

Guest
Overtaking before pulling back into a queue of traffic ?

A scenario I can think of is where the defendant overtakes a queue of traffic but on trying to merge into the queue they cause an obstruction and thus cause other road users, perhaps those travelling in the opposite direction, an inconvenience or a danger. It could then perhaps be held that the actions of the defendant were careless or inconsiderate.
 

Jaws

Corporal CockUp
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
Nope.. still dont get it.. Sorry !

By what you are saying the offence would be committed by those not letting the over taker back in ( which makes sense to me )

But reading the OP it seems to suggest the person every taking is to held at fault ?

So you start to over take on a clear road.. wankers decide they do not like you over taking and close up trying to force you to drop back..

To me the fault would be the person BEING over taken should be nicked yes ?
 

T.C

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
I totally agree with Boggymarsh in that like him I could make a case for careless driving for every one of the proposed new offences listed.

In respect of the Overtaking before pulling back into the queue of traffic, I would imagine that this will relate to those impatient b@astards who force their way to the front of the queue (roadworks, tailbacks, lane closures etc) and then try and jump the queue by forcing their way back in.


Usually there is plenty of advanced warning of a queue or lane closure but these ignorant individuals still seem to think that they have a right to force their way to the front, and as we all know many of our tailbacks and queues are caused by these twats.

Not saying I am right, just an educated guess. Boggmarsh may have a different take on my thoughts.
 
B

Boggymarsh

Guest
Nope.. still dont get it.. Sorry !

By what you are saying the offence would be committed by those not letting the over taker back in ( which makes sense to me )

But reading the OP it seems to suggest the person every taking is to held at fault ?

So you start to over take on a clear road.. wankers decide they do not like you over taking and close up trying to force you to drop back..

To me the fault would be the person BEING over taken should be nicked yes ?

Erm, er, erm... I think I can see what you are geting at John and in fact it just goes to show how easy it is to get a completely different interpretation of what is written. Your scenario could be fitted quite nicely to the proposed "offence", as equally as the scenario I have thought about. If that is how we see things, multiply that by the number of officers in the UK and you potentially have around 160000 different interpretations! Clearly, that would not be acceptable and so this is why they need to tighten things up and make each one a specific offence with its own "points to prove" or find the courts chockerblock with traffic cases!
 
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