D
D.S.
Guest
Terrifying indeedGraphite.ES said:
, think I'll stick to Diablos & Rennsports :bow:
-
Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )
, think I'll stick to Diablos & Rennsports :bow:
C
chuffmeister
Guest
without wanting to start the tyre debate upbut,
are these the Avon Azaros as I am just about to get a set fitted ???
and being a fat upright rider dont want this to happen to me !!! ( honest fcuker me)
:h:dunno::h:dunno::h
are these the Avon Azaros as I am just about to get a set fitted ???
and being a fat upright rider dont want this to happen to me !!! ( honest fcuker me)
:h:dunno::h:dunno::h
birdinflight
Registered User
in defence of AVon.....
Derek had a tyre problem, not exactly like that but he contacted Pete from Blackbird Spares, where we got the tyre from. Avon arranged to have the tyre picked up and returned to them where they promptly examined it and then sent a replacement tyre. I cannot remember what the problem was but the response you are getting from the guy is not in my opinion representative of their customer care.
Might I suggest you email 1200Pete either through here or via his website. www.blackbirdspares.co.uk and see if he can help you out.
Please let us not have another AVon slagging session on here, as these problems do not frequently happen, and should not be something that makes potential and existing customers of Avon doubt their tyres.
WE have already had one AVon disruption on here, and quite frankly we (DERek and I) have found them as a company very forthcoming and helpful.
Derek had a tyre problem, not exactly like that but he contacted Pete from Blackbird Spares, where we got the tyre from. Avon arranged to have the tyre picked up and returned to them where they promptly examined it and then sent a replacement tyre. I cannot remember what the problem was but the response you are getting from the guy is not in my opinion representative of their customer care.
Might I suggest you email 1200Pete either through here or via his website. www.blackbirdspares.co.uk and see if he can help you out.
Please let us not have another AVon slagging session on here, as these problems do not frequently happen, and should not be something that makes potential and existing customers of Avon doubt their tyres.
WE have already had one AVon disruption on here, and quite frankly we (DERek and I) have found them as a company very forthcoming and helpful.
S
Smoothandquick
Guest
Good call
Best bet is to get Avon the tyre back....their hands are tied until they get the actual part back and can examine for a manufacturing or design fault....tyre manufacturers, by the very nature of the product they make, would never allow a known issue to be out on the shelf for us to buy......we can all speculate as to why it happened, but give Avon the chance to thoroughly examine the tyre and feedback to you.....painful though it is to wait for the response !!!!
Best bet is to get Avon the tyre back....their hands are tied until they get the actual part back and can examine for a manufacturing or design fault....tyre manufacturers, by the very nature of the product they make, would never allow a known issue to be out on the shelf for us to buy......we can all speculate as to why it happened, but give Avon the chance to thoroughly examine the tyre and feedback to you.....painful though it is to wait for the response !!!!
G
Gerrard
Guest
To Chuffmeister
Hi Chuffmeister.
The tyre was an Azaro AV50-SP - the tyre did grip and corner as you would expect and was OK 'till this problem occured. I am in no way saying that it could or would happen again with another Avon tyre of the same ilk - in fact if you read on you will see I have put the same make and model of tyre back on as that is what I have at the moment and I am quite willing to give the thing another try (obviously).
I am totally willing to accept this might be a one off and I hope it is, all I want to know is - why did it do it? If I know the answer and I am at fault in some way then I can do something about it. Look at the pictures, do they look like a 'normal' wear pattern? Have you ever had a tyre wear around 60% leaving the rest road legal?.. I havn't!
My sole concern is safety and I did state this was a 'warning' on the header of my original post. If you have or about to have an Avon of this model fitted.. just keep an eye on it like I will for this next one.
I don't want to get into an Avon debate either and I too have found in the past Avon to be a very helpful company, but this is essentially a discussion and information forum and I couldn't have lived with myself had someone got hurt or worse and I hadn't said anything about this problem I've had, so I have given the information and now we are all discussing it.
My last comment stands that if they know something is wrong shouldn't they recall the tyres, then they don't have to admit there might be somethng wrong as the tyres won't be on the market?
Thats what I think anyway.
Hi Chuffmeister.
The tyre was an Azaro AV50-SP - the tyre did grip and corner as you would expect and was OK 'till this problem occured. I am in no way saying that it could or would happen again with another Avon tyre of the same ilk - in fact if you read on you will see I have put the same make and model of tyre back on as that is what I have at the moment and I am quite willing to give the thing another try (obviously).
I am totally willing to accept this might be a one off and I hope it is, all I want to know is - why did it do it? If I know the answer and I am at fault in some way then I can do something about it. Look at the pictures, do they look like a 'normal' wear pattern? Have you ever had a tyre wear around 60% leaving the rest road legal?.. I havn't!
My sole concern is safety and I did state this was a 'warning' on the header of my original post. If you have or about to have an Avon of this model fitted.. just keep an eye on it like I will for this next one.
I don't want to get into an Avon debate either and I too have found in the past Avon to be a very helpful company, but this is essentially a discussion and information forum and I couldn't have lived with myself had someone got hurt or worse and I hadn't said anything about this problem I've had, so I have given the information and now we are all discussing it.
My last comment stands that if they know something is wrong shouldn't they recall the tyres, then they don't have to admit there might be somethng wrong as the tyres won't be on the market?
Thats what I think anyway.
chuffmeister said:
No mate.. they are not what is going on your wheels.. You are having the ST 45 and 46 tyres.. The same ones I did more than 9000 miles on without issue
And this would be on your Blackbird would it Joe ?Dirty Snatch Head said:
D
D.S.
Guest
Jaws said:
No mate, my comment was in respect of my previous post (see below). Personally, I couldn't give a toss what tyres folks wanna put on their bikes (be it a barge, sofa, arse 1 or whatever) - it's personal choice afterall and I'm not in the tyre retailing business & neither am I a Pirelli, Metzler or Avon employee.
B
bigjon
Guest
Has anybody actually questioned how old these tyres are? If bought from a small stockist, they could have been in storage for some years! Rubber does have a shelf life!
ianrobbo1
good looking AND modest
indeed that very question was raised at Avon, on the visit, and the reply was 5 years and the man wouldnt like to ride on any older than that, he had however seen a tyre over 30 YEARS old that was still being ridden,!!bigjon said:
it was however on a vintage bike used only for shows etc!!
G
Gerrard
Guest
Dates For Tyres
A good point Bigjon, must admit I hadn't thought of that, and I suppose it's worth looking into, but how do you tell what age the tyre is or would I have to go back to the stockist? Even then they could only say how long they'd had them.. they might have been drawing their pension before they left Avon :dunno:
Anyhow, I like your theory best of all at the moment!!
A good point Bigjon, must admit I hadn't thought of that, and I suppose it's worth looking into, but how do you tell what age the tyre is or would I have to go back to the stockist? Even then they could only say how long they'd had them.. they might have been drawing their pension before they left Avon :dunno:
Anyhow, I like your theory best of all at the moment!!
ianrobbo1
good looking AND modest
asked em about "stock rotation" as well, and they confirmed that stock IS routinely rotated to stop the above "suggestion" from occurring, there IS a manufacturing date on the side wall, but I cant remember how to "crack" the code but I'm sure someone wot did the Avon trip will most likely remember, failing that give em another email and ask !!! :dunno:
B
bigjon
Guest
Have a look at this http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/entrypoint.html?menu.html&tyre_bible.html
I know it relates to car tyres, but the dating stamp should be similar i.e. a 4 figure code like 3003, which means week 30 of 2003 (03).
Hope this helps
I know it relates to car tyres, but the dating stamp should be similar i.e. a 4 figure code like 3003, which means week 30 of 2003 (03).
Hope this helps
G
Gerrard
Guest
Out of Date
Just checked the tyre markings on the side wall and I found a stamp of 2004 so I think the tyre was 'in date', but I did notice something else that puzzled me.
In a block of writing it said maximum PSI 42psi or 2.90 bar when cold. For the Blackbird, Honda recommend 42 psi front and rear for normal riding, so if the max psi for the tyre (as it says on the wall) is 42 psi that means the tyre is at is at it's limit before you have got it off the side stand.
Surely to run safely at 42 psi the tyre must have a higher psi rating to give a safety margin? Also the temperatures in the UK on the road would possibly be 46 psi when running hot but as the air and therefore the road temperature over here is far far hotter my running temperature would be well above the estimated 46 in the UK.
So does it say on the side wall what the max temperature on lets say a Bridgestone 020 is for example?
On reflection I have noticed that most of the big sports bikes over here run on 020 type tyres so they must know something I hadn't thought of and that they run on these to allow for the extra temperature, I think when the Avons have had their day I will go with the flow.
Just checked the tyre markings on the side wall and I found a stamp of 2004 so I think the tyre was 'in date', but I did notice something else that puzzled me.
In a block of writing it said maximum PSI 42psi or 2.90 bar when cold. For the Blackbird, Honda recommend 42 psi front and rear for normal riding, so if the max psi for the tyre (as it says on the wall) is 42 psi that means the tyre is at is at it's limit before you have got it off the side stand.
Surely to run safely at 42 psi the tyre must have a higher psi rating to give a safety margin? Also the temperatures in the UK on the road would possibly be 46 psi when running hot but as the air and therefore the road temperature over here is far far hotter my running temperature would be well above the estimated 46 in the UK.
So does it say on the side wall what the max temperature on lets say a Bridgestone 020 is for example?
On reflection I have noticed that most of the big sports bikes over here run on 020 type tyres so they must know something I hadn't thought of and that they run on these to allow for the extra temperature, I think when the Avons have had their day I will go with the flow.
S
Smoothandquick
Guest
The 42 psi is NOT the max operating pressure of the tyre, it is simply the pressure they recommend to inflate the tyre to prior to riding.....with load (accels, decels and cornering), weight on the bike and road surface/temp, the actual working pressure within the tyre will be greater than this. It is merely a number that the tyre designers, in conjunction with Honda will have worked out as an optimum pressure to cover 99% of riding situations. This number is to ensure we all start at the same point.
F
frenchuk
Guest
The WHEN COLD answers your question dude! Now don't get me started on Bridgestone, who blatantly lied to me about the bird-specific (or rather, heavy bike specific) 020, telling me that really, they were simply developped for the German market but that in UK, the normal 020 was fine for the bird :bang::bang::bang:Graphite.ES said:
1200Pete
Registered User
Graphite, if you get in touch with me I will get the tyre picked up and returned free of charge, if they do find a manufacturing fault I am sure we can get you some sort of satisfaction.
One question that has not been asked is, was your tyre a "B" Specific tyre? The SP like the ST was made with a B suffix stamped on the side wall, this designation denoted that the tyre was suitable for "heavy bikes" Bird, Busa, ZX12R Etc.
One other point I think Peter (Avon) was trying to explain is that there is no tread in the centre of the tyre, therefore there is no tread depth indicator. If you are an upright rider or you have done a lot of motorway type miles you will not be able to tell the tread depth.
This means when you do run out of tread you will go through the lower compound in an instant.
The most likely reason for the tyre wearing out in one place and not the other, is that the cords are laid on one on top of the other by hand (as seen by all on the factory tour) Each set of cords has an overlap so one side of the tyre will be very slightly thicker than the other side when finished. All tyres are made this way and will wear this way, cords will never show in a nice even line on a modern radial tyre, just listen to the tyre the next time you are at a stunt show, you will hear just before the tyre blows on a burnout the cords rubbing the tarmac you can hear the tyre makes a distinctive and uneven sound, this is the reason.
As for a maximum 42 PSI when cold on the sidewall, you will find exactly the same pressure marks on the Bridgestone 020, Dunlop 208, in fact most tyres on the market.
One question that has not been asked is, was your tyre a "B" Specific tyre? The SP like the ST was made with a B suffix stamped on the side wall, this designation denoted that the tyre was suitable for "heavy bikes" Bird, Busa, ZX12R Etc.
One other point I think Peter (Avon) was trying to explain is that there is no tread in the centre of the tyre, therefore there is no tread depth indicator. If you are an upright rider or you have done a lot of motorway type miles you will not be able to tell the tread depth.
This means when you do run out of tread you will go through the lower compound in an instant.
The most likely reason for the tyre wearing out in one place and not the other, is that the cords are laid on one on top of the other by hand (as seen by all on the factory tour) Each set of cords has an overlap so one side of the tyre will be very slightly thicker than the other side when finished. All tyres are made this way and will wear this way, cords will never show in a nice even line on a modern radial tyre, just listen to the tyre the next time you are at a stunt show, you will hear just before the tyre blows on a burnout the cords rubbing the tarmac you can hear the tyre makes a distinctive and uneven sound, this is the reason.
As for a maximum 42 PSI when cold on the sidewall, you will find exactly the same pressure marks on the Bridgestone 020, Dunlop 208, in fact most tyres on the market.
C
chuffmeister
Guest
:bow: ta john........... saves me changing my mind c7u8Jaws said:No mate.. they are not what is going on your wheels.. You are having the ST 45 and 46 tyres.. The same ones I did more than 9000 miles on without issue
G
Gerrard
Guest
Tyre
Hi Pete.
Thanls for your help. have Email you of line.
Cheers Paul.
Hi Pete.
Thanls for your help. have Email you of line.
Cheers Paul.