Should the level of PPE be higher?

[Malone]

as I understand it all we have to wear to abide by the law is a certified crash helmet

When I first got a licence no crash hats were required, mum and dad made me wear one though, having said that my first proper crash that required an ambulance trip to hospital I was only wearing jeans jacket and a bobble hat.

Then later on the law came in requiring use of a helmet. 40+ years later it’s routine to put one on, even when I was racing I’d put it on just to pop across the tarmac to the loo.

Nowadays I feel uncomfortable if I’m not wearing 2 piece leathers or my Dainese 2 piece textiles. I have popped down to the local trading estate wearing jeans and boots and a leather jacket, but it doesn’t feel right.

I will never ride without gloves on.

Should the legal minimum be reviewed to include mandatory use of proper gloves and perhaps outerwear as well?

What’s prompted this today? It’s sunny and warm outside, yippee. What should I see coming towards me was helmet, t shirt, jeans, trainers. No gloves. On a Fireblade. Wtf? Have these people ever seen the after effects of a slide along the road in that sort of protection?

Also, next to me on a roundabout we’re a couple on a scooter, a twist and go little thing, and whilst they weren’t togged up fully they were wearing strap on knee pads like the skateboarders use. Perhaps they were coming into town from a motorhome parked outside? It looked small enough for holiday use.

So, am I just getting to be a grumpy old git, or should there be better protection?

 

[Cougar377]

as I understand it all we have to wear to abide by the law is a certified crash helmet

When I first got a licence no crash hats were required, mum and dad made me wear one though, having said that my first proper crash that required an ambulance trip to hospital I was only wearing jeans jacket and a bobble hat.

Then later on the law came in requiring use of a helmet. 40+ years later it’s routine to put one on, even when I was racing I’d put it on just to pop across the tarmac to the loo.

Nowadays I feel uncomfortable if I’m not wearing 2 piece leathers or my Dainese 2 piece textiles. I have popped down to the local trading estate wearing jeans and boots and a leather jacket, but it doesn’t feel right.

I will never ride without gloves on.

Should the legal minimum be reviewed to include mandatory use of proper gloves and perhaps outerwear as well?

What’s prompted this today? It’s sunny and warm outside, yippee. What should I see coming towards me was helmet, t shirt, jeans, trainers. No gloves. On a Fireblade. Wtf? Have these people ever seen the after effects of a slide along the road in that sort of protection?

Also, next to me on a roundabout we’re a couple on a scooter, a twist and go little thing, and whilst they weren’t togged up fully they were wearing strap on knee pads like the skateboarders use. Perhaps they were coming into town from a motorhome parked outside? It looked small enough for holiday use.

So, am I just getting to be a grumpy old git, or should there be better protection?

"Lights blue touchpaper and runs like f*ck".

 

[T.C]

And what would be manadatory for you other than crash helmet and gloves?

We have had this discussion before. One persons idea of protective kit is anothers nightmare.

I have case studies in my capacity as an "Expert" where some of the big branded names have actually exaserbated injuries and cheap stuff where the injuries were far less serious than they could have been because of the kit even though it was cheap.

When I had my crash, I was wearing a £300 pair of issue boots. They were part of the problem that I am now a cripple.

Even wearing a crash helmet os no guarantee of protection because the majority of fatalities with riders is as a result of a broken neck which no helmet will protect you from, and as I found out as the expert in the case of Finnis v Cauldfield (2001) even a good fitting helmet is no guarantee of protection as the head can shrink by up to 3 sizes momentarily in an impact causing the helmet to rotate and come off despite being a good fit and securely fastened.

Yes the idiots who choose to ride in T shirts and shorts are numpties, but if we went down the route you suggest then it would also make personal injury cases more difficult because going back to my original statement, that even wearing protective kit does not guarantee protection and defendant firms will jump on what was being worn whereas at the moment it has no bearing other than was the helmet being worn and securely fastened, and if it wasn't then even then the rider is only likely to lose a maximum of 25% by way of contributory negligence and even then it has to be proved that the unsecure or non wearing of a helmet contribute to any head injuries sustained.

No head injury, no deductions.

On top of that it would open a can of worms as to what would be deemed minimal protection

Arguments would ensue who believe that leather is the only solution whilst the vegitarians would insist on textiles.

Things like boots would be a nightmare as not everyone can get boots to fit properly

Look how many people state that they would never ride without the minimum of a leather or textile jacket... Why? Given that most injuries occur to the lower body and feet and yet these people who would never ride without their jacket ae quite happy to ride in jeans and trainers.

Fortunately, those idiots that choose to ride with no protection at all is minimal, but to make it mandatory is as has been said many times before opening up a whole can or worms.

Oh, and I am (like quite a few on here) from the same era as yourself.

 

[Centaur]

You're getting to be a grumpy old git! I have occasionally worn jeans, gloves, tee shirt and open faced helmet on short trips into town in very hot weather. I was aware of the risks and rode very carefully. Like the pro freedom women say.... "My body;my decision.

 

[Jaws]

Should the legal minimum be reviewed to include mandatory use of proper gloves and perhaps outerwear as well?


So, am I just getting to be a grumpy old git, or should there be better protection?

NO !!! There is already FAR too many rules and laws in the UK, controlling every aspect of our lives.
I, for instance, will 99.9 % of the time wear gloves, but apart from track days never wear leathers
I have always wore jeans to ride in ( and yes, I have had occasion where I have inspected the tarmac up close )

But I know ehere your coming from too.
In the early 70's I raced bangers and stox ( quite successfully too ) and ALWAYS wear a seat belt.. Started wearing them long before it was law.
I guess it is each persons mind set and risk aversion level that dictates what we do.. But making something law is not really the way to go..
If we are gonna visit that particular hell, where to stop ?
Doughnuts are obviously not a good food option..Do we have a law that denies the eating of doughnuts in any larger quantity than 1 a month?
Should smoking and drinking be made illegal ?


Then there is the other side of things.. Who is more likely to come a cropper ?
Someone in full leathers who is hot, sweaty, dehydrator and very uncomfortable, or someone who is fresh and alert ?


And the last bit.. YES !! you are becoming that bloke you thought was a grumpy old git !!

 

[Cougar377]

To make it "fair" you would have to enforce Personal Protection kit on anyone who is involved in almost any sort of sport or high risk leisure activity...and that's not likely.

I won't go anywhere on a bike without full kit but I've long since given up getting wound up when I see kids on scooters and 125's wearing sod all kit except a tatty lid that's not done up. Darwinism in action.

 

[derek kelly]

Ppi or ppe?

 

[Malone]

Ppi or ppe?

Sorry PPE - and there’s me done diploma in Health and Safety too!

However, PPI - I’ve had 2 payouts, out of the blue, that really made my day some years ago :campeon:


Well, I’m pleased to have given some discussion on the subject, I get a chill down my spine seeing how some numpties ride. Example, the scootery twist’n’go mopedy things where the learner feels it’s necessary to put a foot down going round corners. One lad on the estate used to do that all the time, he was a bit “challenged” already and rode L plates for years on and off, and then I saw him in a wheelchair being pushed around lacking the lower half of the left leg. 2 + 2 makes 4 he fell I suppose?

 

[andyBeaker]

I always kitted up fully for any ride. And that includes a full day in Cyprus in August 40c+!

My personal opinion is that anyone who doesn't wear full kit is crackers but that is there choice.

As a taxpayer I don't see why I should pay for the repair work when it goes wrong. Same for smokers.

 

[Squag1]

Saw them in the tunnel at Lake Garda.
Shorts flip flops
Walls in tunnel fair jagged.

 

[derek kelly]

My brother used to like climbing mountains (silly boy) he was discussing how uncomfortable it is wearing a helmet so I asked him why he wore one as if he fell it would be no use & if a big rock fell on him he’d be fucked

 

[Minkey]

Saw the title got the wrong end of the stick, my initial reaction people are trying to get away from PPI

 

[Pow-Lo]

And what would be manadatory for you other than crash helmet and gloves?

We have had this discussion before. One persons idea of protective kit is anothers nightmare.

I have case studies in my capacity as an "Expert" where some of the big branded names have actually exaserbated injuries and cheap stuff where the injuries were far less serious than they could have been because of the kit even though it was cheap.

When I had my crash, I was wearing a £300 pair of issue boots. They were part of the problem that I am now a cripple.

Even wearing a crash helmet os no guarantee of protection because the majority of fatalities with riders is as a result of a broken neck which no helmet will protect you from, and as I found out as the expert in the case of Finnis v Cauldfield (2001) even a good fitting helmet is no guarantee of protection as the head can shrink by up to 3 sizes momentarily in an impact causing the helmet to rotate and come off despite being a good fit and securely fastened.

Yes the idiots who choose to ride in T shirts and shorts are numpties, but if we went down the route you suggest then it would also make personal injury cases more difficult because going back to my original statement, that even wearing protective kit does not guarantee protection and defendant firms will jump on what was being worn whereas at the moment it has no bearing other than was the helmet being worn and securely fastened, and if it wasn't then even then the rider is only likely to lose a maximum of 25% by way of contributory negligence and even then it has to be proved that the unsecure or non wearing of a helmet contribute to any head injuries sustained.

No head injury, no deductions.

On top of that it would open a can of worms as to what would be deemed minimal protection

Arguments would ensue who believe that leather is the only solution whilst the vegitarians would insist on textiles.

Things like boots would be a nightmare as not everyone can get boots to fit properly

Look how many people state that they would never ride without the minimum of a leather or textile jacket... Why? Given that most injuries occur to the lower body and feet and yet these people who would never ride without their jacket ae quite happy to ride in jeans and trainers.

Fortunately, those idiots that choose to ride with no protection at all is minimal, but to make it mandatory is as has been said many times before opening up a whole can or worms.

Oh, and I am (like quite a few on here) from the same era as yourself.

As a point of order, Tony, it’s vegans that would insist on textiles, not vegetablists

As for me, I prefer leathers but I’m quite happy in a Dainese textile jacket and the bottom half of my Dainese race leathers. I wore Dainese motorcycle jeans to work on the ‘Bird to work today and it felt weird not being in leather pants. Maybe it was cos me arse slides around the ‘Bird seat in jeans but not leathers, dunno, but I did feel slightly vulnerable without leathers.

As for PPI, the one thing I never ride without is a back protector.

 

[T.C]

As a point of order, Tony, it’s vegans that would insist on textiles, not vegetablists

As for me, I prefer leathers but I’m quite happy in a Dainese textile jacket and the bottom half of my Dainese race leathers. I wore Dainese motorcycle jeans to work on the ‘Bird to work today and it felt weird not being in leather pants. Maybe it was cos me arse slides around the ‘Bird seat in jeans but not leathers, dunno, but I did feel slightly vulnerable without leathers.

As for PPI, the one thing I never ride without is a back protector.

OK, well on the first issue, I take your point. I trust that people who know far more about non animal eating/wearing people than I do got the jist of what I was saying.

Textile jacket and leather trousers work for me as well, so you get no criticism from me. The point I was making is that many seem find it acceptab;le to ride in a minimum of a leather jacket when the reality is that it is the bottom half of the body that suffers most in a crash.

As for the back protector, that again is a matter of personal choice in my opinion.

I wear a memory foam one built into my jackets, but I would never wear a back protector you have to wear seperately.

So this goes back to an earlier point... How would you enforce mandatory PPE when standards vary, ideas as to what are protective are subjective and until the new CE regs come in, the CE markings for PPE are not worth bog paper.

 

[Pow-Lo]

OK, well on the first issue, I take your point. I trust that people who know far more about non animal eating/wearing people than I do got the jist of what I was saying.

Textile jacket and leather trousers work for me as well, so you get no criticism from me. The point I was making is that many seem find it acceptab;le to ride in a minimum of a leather jacket when the reality is that it is the bottom half of the body that suffers most in a crash.

As for the back protector, that again is a matter of personal choice in my opinion.

I wear a memory foam one built into my jackets, but I would never wear a back protector you have to wear seperately.

So this goes back to an earlier point... How would you enforce mandatory PPE when standards vary, ideas as to what are protective are subjective and until the new CE regs come in, the CE markings for PPE are not worth bog paper.

I was thinking about this thread yesterday. Mrs P took me to Guildford to collect my baby Panzer, which had just had her first service. I rode home (51 miles) and, as it was such a lovely day, changed out of my textile jacket, strapped on my back protector and grabbed the top half of my race suit and zipped it to my pants and went out for some fun.

Anyhoo, I stopped at Rye Harbour for a bit of sun and see what metal was hanging around. The local yob on his GSX-R was there wearing his helmet, a sleeveless t-shirt, jogging pants and trainers. He obviously new what he was doing on bike but he screeched out of the parking area and revved the nuts off it, like a total cock, as he sped off. If he'd come off, I imagine it would have been quite painful.

Returning to back protectors, I have an old Dainese one that straps around my waist, which I use when wearing race leathers. In my textiles or retro-leather jacket, they have a 'pocket' in the back to allow insertion of a back protector so I have another one to switch between these jackets. Both are pretty comfortable but I do feel more protected in the one that straps on.

Cue some twat amending my post to make it a strap-on dildo instead of a back protector

 

[Jaws]

I wear a memory foam one built into my jackets, but I would never wear a back protector you have to wear seperately.

Does it remember when you weren't a fat bugger Tony ?
Or is that long term memory foam I am thinking of ?

 

[T.C]

I don't anything or anyone remembers that far back.... Even me!

It is a real problem finding clothes in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL sizes or as the Mrs says Really big fat b@stard sizes......

 

[Cougar377]

I don't anything or anyone remembers that far back.... Even me!

It is a real problem finding clothes in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL sizes or as the Mrs says Really big fat b@stard sizes......

Get yerself down to your local Sportsdirect store and buy some grey tracky bottoms and hoodie. They're all the rage with the scooter scum round our way.
The elastic guarantees a perfect fit.....

 

[Minkey]

I'm always amazed when I see motorcyclists riding wearing T shirts and shorts. One day I saw a biker who was dressed top to toe in leathers his son on the back had T shirt and shorts on go figure

 

[T.C]

Get yerself down to your local Sportsdirect store and buy some grey tracky bottoms and hoodie. They're all the rage with the scooter scum round our way.
The elastic guarantees a perfect fit.....

Don't need to. I get mine from Lidl in Vienna and they fit perfectly well.

I prefer lounge pants to tracky bottoms although I think you would be hard pushed to tell the difference between the two