Running Hot

[scruffygit]

Got a funny problem here.

Just got in from riding down from Belfast via Cairnryan, a total distance of 400 miles. About half way down whilst stuck in traffic on the M6 I noticed the temp was at 103 degrees. Pulled in at the first service station to check her over and I am sure the fan was not running. Checked all the obvious things - fuse is ok, coolant level in the header tank is ok. Not a lot else to do but carry on and keep an eye on her. Up to that point she had been running normally with the fan cutting in and out as advertised.

To get the temp below 90 degrees you have to be doing over 80, anything below 60 and the temp goes into the 100s. Cruising at 90 (indicated officer) she sits at 85/86 degrees. Normally, at anything over 60 she sits at 82/83. Around town or in stop-start traffic she gets up to 103/105 ish but is fairly stable at that unless I actually stop then it starts climbing, the highest I saw was 107 degrees. Again, normally, the fan cuts in before it gets anywhere near 100 degrees in those conditions.

When I got back home, I checked the fan again and, again, am fairly certain that the fan was not running (temp reading 99 degrees). Opened up the house and gates, switched on the ignition to ride her in - temp reading 107 and guess what? the poxy fans running :bang: :bang: but the temps not coming down :dunno:

The only thing I've seen anywhere near this is on my old VW Golf in mid 80s that used to burn out its fan temp switch if the coolant level in the radiator got too low, but as I've said the header tank level is fine - are 'Birds prone to air-locks in the system? Any suggestions please, ideally simple and idiot proof as my workshop manual and most of my tools are in NI.

Also is there any danger that I have done any damage? I ran her at least 150 miles in that condition, most of it on the motorway fortunately but there were quite a few hold ups on the way that slowed me down and sent the temp soaring.

We are off to Brands Hatch for the weekend, leaving tommorow lunch-time. Natalie wants to go on the bike, I'm not to certain what do you all think?

Thanks in advance :bow: :bow:

John.

 

[tony1100]

According to the nice information booklet that came with my new BB last week, it says don't panic unless it gets to 122 Deg C then it recommends that you stop and contact the dealer...

 

[SILVERONE]

According to the nice information booklet that came with my new BB last week, it says don't panic unless it gets to 122 Deg C then it recommends that you stop and contact the dealer...

Yip I think mine says the same, I thought mine was run hot a couple of weeks a'go & I could't hear the fan (Microns) so instead of turning it off with key I used the kill switch ! which doesn't seem to stop the fan from working as long as the ignitions on,
"try that Scruffygit" (when it gets hot again)

 

[scruffygit]

Thanks guys. At least I've done no serious damage except possibly to my wallet.

Had a quick play this morning. Checked her over again and all the levels are still ok. Started her up and let the temp get up to 100 degrees when the fan cut in and brought the temp down to 89. This is what normally happens unless I leave her standing when the temp slowly creeps up. Kept it running and let the temp get bak up to 100 again when the fan cut in properly but this time only brought the temp down to 96 wher it stayed for the 5 minutes I let her run.

Turned the ignition off with the fan still running at 96 (sorry, forgot about the kill switch trick). Let the fan run down and restarted with a temp indication of 98. It got up to 103 before the fan cut in this time and it only slowly brought it down to 97 when the fan cut out. Temp got back up to 103 but no fan this time. I turned her off whilst I had some breakfast and went back about 20 minutes later. Started up with the temp at 80, let it run up to 100 again when the fan cut in and brought it down to a steady 96 again. At this point I gave up and put her back in the shed.

Am now of to Brands with a very unhappy wife - deep joy, not.

Help! be it with the 'Bird or a good divorce lawyer. :bang:

John

 

[nigs]

John

As far as I know it's not a problem. They all run hot - there are loads of posts about hot running - if you get a chance before you set up have a quick search through the help section. It should put your mind at rest. Instead of waiting for the fan to cool it down, you can also rev the engine a bit to get the coolant moving around. Either way is doesn't seem to matter.

Have a great time at Brands.

 

[Canadian Bird]

running hot, my 2 cents worth

As stated Birds run hot. Only once has my '02 Canadian Bird flashed "122"/red line. After many miles, temp 100-110 F, waiting to enter Yellowstone State Park, no shade, she flashed red. Of course I freaked out but pulled over to the shade, shut her down, waited for 30 min. It took a few miles to cool down but that has been the only time she ran over the heat limit. Every summer I tour long miles in very hot weather, BC, Alberta, Wash., Oregon, Calif., etc and she runs warm and sometimes hot. I use Motul, Motocool Expert, for what it's worth. My preferred temp is 83/86 C but if it's hot she'll run 90/95C. Quote, "When the coolant temperature reaches
251 F (122 C), the display begins to flash
and a "red line" (2) appears on the display.

If this occurs, stop the engine and check
the reserve tank coolant level. Read the
appropriate pages in owners' manual and
do not ride the motorcycle until problem has
been corrected.
NOTICE: Continuing to ride with an overheated engine can cause serious
engine damage.

Enjoy your Bird and just ride. Be vigilant, but enjoy, too much worry can detract from the pleasure.

 

[Geoff Clement]

wash the radiator

I had this recently, it started climbing if i was in traffic or in town riding, thought about it , decided to check that the rad was clear so i hosed through without the spray attachment, just held the hose pipe to the rad on the wheel side (front) and made sure it was completely clear, it made a marked difference to the temp guage, went to ride out to Rye on sunday and it stayed cool a lot more than before. going to do this regularly now.

 

[graham]

running hot???

Fan on 98 to 102 degrees C. Fan off 93 to 97 degrees C.

Thats the spec! don't worry, like everyone says, 'they run hot'

Have ridden 'Bird in 40+degree weather, I was bollocksed but the bike was great.

Your problem is 'too much information', if you had an older 'Bird without a digital display, you would have nothing to worry about! :violin:

Have a great weekend and thrash that 'Bird both ways

 

[rlb]

yeah if it isn't backfiring, heavy pinging, loss in power and puking over..it ain't hot. Don't bet the farm on the guages they prolly not correct anyway...seen 250 and 250+ before on mine....no problems

 

[RHINO]

My fan

Is on very regular, the bike is bound to run hot.....it revs its nuts off compared to a car and it only has a tiny radiator which inturn is cocooned in plastic,,,damn thing is struggling when it's not moving.

Would be intersting to see if there's another fan switch to activate the fan sooner to allow it to run cooler. When i motion the bike NEVER suffers from overheating, just when sat around in traffic.
I had a YANK muscle car which used to run HOT but i changed the thermo fan switch from a different model vehicle and it made a hell of a difference.

 

[scruffygit]

Thanks very much for all your help guys :bow: :bow: , I'll stop worrying. I had read all the threads on temp problems before but mine never seemed to run that hot unless I was in heavy traffic, this is the first time I have seen her run that hot on the open road. Normally anything over 60 brings the temp down in to the low eighties, this time I had to do 90 ish to get it down to the mid eighties. I'll take her out for a play tommorrow and see how she goes.

Brands Hatch was brilliant, A double for Haga after some great scraps in both races. The only off bit was all the cheering when Laconi went down. Cheer on your own favorite,especially the Brits, by all means but don't gloat at someones misfortune. Best of all Natalie got autographs from her two heros, Chilli and Toseland, so shes well happy, the divorce is off (for the time being) and I might even get lucky tonight :k

Thanks again every one,

John.

 

[rlb]

If you want to try this product (Two2Cool) here is a link where KTM racers using itwith great results. You will just have to read through the posts for all the information http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?act=Se...in=posts&result_type=topics&highlite=two2cool

example
I have taken some measurments with a digital temp gage mounted at the drain plug on a Pro Sr

KTM 50 Pro Sr. W/Out Two2Cool MTL 75 / 200ml in the gearbox
330F 2 laps 166C
341F 4 laps 172C
358F 6 laps 181C
363F 8 laps 184C
371F 10 laps 188C

KTM 50 Pro Sr. W/ Two2Cool 2 oz per qt of MTL75 / 200ml in gearbox
308F 2 laps 153C
316F 4 laps 157C
305F 6 laps 152C
319F 8 laps 159C
316F 10 laps 157C

Note...I do not use or sell this product, I just ran across this a while back and thought it may help someone out...

 

[CbrDavE]

Running hot worries - The cure

Place a short piece of black stickey tape over the gauge numbers so you can only see the black/red line underneath.

 

[urbandirt]

Debunking Two2Cool

> If you want to try this product (Two2Cool) here is a link where
> KTM racers using itwith great results. You will just have to read
> through the posts for all the information http://ktmtalk.com/
>
Two2Cool works... in the short run only.

The boiling point of Two2Cool according to the MSDS (Material
Safety Data Sheet) published (required by U.S. law) by the makers
of Two2Cool, is 375 degrees F. Regular motor oil boils around
550 degrees F.

Two2Cool works by boiling off. When anything boils (goes from a
liquid state to a gas state) it take a tremendous amount of
energy out of the system. This is called the phase-change effect.
The phase-change effect also happens when a substance goes from a
solid to a liquid.

Once any part of your bike's oiled surfaces (think the hot engine
head) reach 375 degrees F. Two2Cool boils taking heat (energy)
out of the engine. The vapors leave via the crankcase vent.

This cooling will happen until the Two2Cool is completely
evaporated.

What damage can this cause? Think of the bubbles generated in a
pot of boiling water. Would you want a bubble (void) of no
lubrication to appear between your engine's cam lobe and rocker
arm?

Besides being extremely cost prohibitive, I doubt you'll find any
professional engine builder out there that recommends putting
*any* substance in your engine's crankcase that boils at 375
degrees F.


Here's a warning I've already sent out to other motorsports
forums:

==========

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:47:22 -0400
To: moto.org
From: Russell Stephan
Subject: Two2Cool oil additive.

Maybe you guys have heard about this stuff. The web page is
completely devoid of any "hard" facts about how it works to cool
an engine drastically (like 30 degrees F drastic).

Although the company's owner, one Russell Clay, claims some new
chemical with special heat seeking properties is responsible, a
review of the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) reveals the
additive's boiling point to be 375 degrees F. That's pretty low
to be in with the oil. Oil usually boils around 550 degrees F.

So how does Two2Cool actually work? The low boiling point allows
drastic engine cooling through the well-known process of liquid
to gas phase-change when oil temperatures start nearing the
additive's boiling point. Lots of energy is removed from any
system when a substance goes from solid to liquid or liquid to
gas. The venting of the gas to atmosphere happens through the
crankcase breather.

The cooling effect is drastic but only temporary until the
Two2Cool is completely boiled off from the engine.

Here's the sad part... The owner of the company actually believes
he has discovered some substance that by-passes the traditional
laws of thermodynamics.

Give him about a week to talk with his various experts and
realize the error of his theories. If he hasn't changed his tune
by then, he's snake oiling for dollars on purpose.

The science is well-known to those that paid attention in high
school physics and chemistry. Don't let Mr. Clay's chemical
yammer babble deflect from the very basic idea of the
conservation of energy. The energy in must equal the energy out.
There is no such thing as disappearing heat. Energy can neither
be created nor destroyed. It can only change form.

If you'd like to follow this complete thread check out
www.thumpertalk.com. Go to forums, XR250/400, and look over the
topic "two2cool oil additive". It's extremely long, I know. I'm
going to try and cull my main points out for further
dissemination on the web.

This guy charges an arm and a leg for this stuff. It's pure
bogus.