Imformation please

Discussion in 'Legal Eagle Roost' started by SILVTEC, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. SILVTEC

    SILVTEC Registered User Read Only

    Unfortunately got snapped on the M25 doing 73 in a variable speed limit. Wrote off saying I was driver at the time and offered mitigating circumstances, long story but true about 91 year old mother being rushed into hospital in Essex. Have now been offered 3 points and ?100 fine and told it was outside the guidelines for an Awareness Course, but at no point have they told me what the speed limit was at the time the offence was committed.

    Questions, should they tell me if I ask, do they know, is it worth me risking going to court?

    :violin:
     
  2. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Been there, and had one Club Sponsor

    Not worth going to court you leave yourself open to larger fine plus costs. Look thorough your paperwork and check to see if the offense is not stated. Eg 69mph in 60 zone. TC would know for sure.
     
  3. T.C

    T.C Been there, and had one Club Sponsor

    You shoukd have received a written NIP along with the request for drivers details. That paperwork should have had the "alleged" speed written on it somewhere.

    Either way, whilst you may/do have a legitimate mitigation for exceeeding the speed limit, that will not reduce the penalty.

    You are of course entitled to plead not guilty, but you are only going to delay the inevitable, and in all seriousness the magistrates tend to substantially increase the penalty and points to those that plead not guilty but are convicted anyway.
     
  4. SILVTEC

    SILVTEC Registered User Read Only

    It said that I was doing 73mph but doesn't mention what the speed limit was. It also says that i didn't meet the criteria for an Awareness Course but not why. I haven't done one in the last three years, that's why I would like to know what the limit was. I have a friend in Wales who was clocked at 83 in a variable and he's down for a course next week.
     
  5. Boggymarsh

    Boggymarsh Registered User Read Only

    As harsh as it may seem, there is no legal obligation on the police to offer these courses and so it is somewhat futile to try and find out why you haven't met the criteria. Each force has a different criteria for these courses but ALL use the same bit of law to prosecute for the speeding offence, which is and always has been an "absolute" offence. Sorry to say it but if you have been caught, you have been caught!
     
  6. Rheumatoid

    Rheumatoid B.I.R.D Intellectual Club Sponsor

    There is no fixed eligibility for a course AFAIK. Depends on the constabulary in question.
     
  7. noobie

    noobie Clueless in most things Club Sponsor

    I found this on the Essex police website

    https://www.essex.police.uk/be_safe/speeding.aspx

    a bit stands out Report to court – Drivers who are 25mph or more over the speed limit will be reported to court. if that is the reason why, it should show the limit at the time you were passing through?
     
  8. T.C

    T.C Been there, and had one Club Sponsor


    I will give you a different perspective.

    I used to Police the M4 from Heathrow down to the Wiltshire border just west of junction 14 and although I am retired, things have not changed.

    Anyone committing an offence from junction 11 through to the county border are dealt with by Newbury Magistrates court (at least until it closes in a month or so) and anything east of junction 1 is dealt with by Maidenhaead Magistrates.

    Most speeders that go to Newbury up to 100MPH keep their licence and get a token slap on the wrist fine, go to Maidenhead for the same offence and you can more or less say goodbye to your licence and kiss goodbye to your life savings as you pay off the fines (I exagerate but you get my drift)

    The same applies to the driver awareness courses. Different forces have different criteria, and in fact Thames Valley tend to put more through the courts than the courses


    As Boggymarsh says it is an absolute offence, and some might argue that if you were in a variable limit and yu were sufficiently over to be outside the criteria for a speed awareness course, you are lucky that you are not looking at a section 3 careless driving offence as well.

    As Boggymarsh says, you have been caught, take it on the chin and save yourself a few shillings with the extra fines that would be imposed on you if you went to court.
     
  9. mikeyw64

    mikeyw64 Registered User Read Only

    WHilst I agree with T.C to an extent about taking it on the chin I would also say no-one is above the law.

    If process has not been followed then the alleged offence should be dropped.


    And therein lies the problem with us poor mortals here, what we don't know for sure is if it is supposed to say

    "73mph in a variable speed limit where the speed at the date /time was set at 60mph"


    Or if

    "73mph in a variable speed limit at such & such date/time" is legally acceptable

    @Silvertec , out of idle curiosity (and as you haven't mentioned it previously) do you recall what the variable limit was actually set too at the date/time of the alleged offense?
     
  10. slim63

    slim63 Never surrender Club Sponsor

    I have been caught twice for speeding the first was supposedly 58mph in temporary road works where the revised limit was 50mph I contested that as there were no road works on the actual carriageway although there was evidence that there had been recently, basically the road works had been completed a week before & nobody had bothered to reset the camera, I wonder how much revenue that little trick raised , case dropped @tu*

    The second was supposed to be 46mph in a 30 limit, I wasn't doing anywhere near that as had only just pulled out of a side road just before the camera van, even the bird don't get up to 46mph in 10 yards so I contested that as well & lost what would have been £80 & 3 points became £155 & 6 points funnily enough at court the speed went down to 39mph somehow, dodgy gits had me over there , dodgy gits

    Silvertec I would pay up & be happy to do so in your case as there is nothing to contest mate, EG you were speeding unless you can prove otherwise, the circumstances mean nothing under law
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  11. SILVTEC

    SILVTEC Registered User Read Only

    Sorry Mikey haven't got a clue, that's why I would like to know.
    From memory on the way up and on the way back the lights were flashing in loads of places for mile upon mile with warnings of 'incidents ahead' but I never saw any of them. In fact for the M25 both trips were light with traffic.
     
  12. mikeyw64

    mikeyw64 Registered User Read Only

    Correct answer, congratulations on not incriminating yourself @tu*
     

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